Daily Kos is this huge open-air market where everyone gets issued a soapbox. A huge digital agora that I avoid because plumbing its depths wouldn't leave me time to write or program or nothin'. Kos himself is a guy who wound up standing at the confluence of forces and adapted pretty well. Apparently he bugged out a little and the feminist bloggers are incensed...I'm linking to this one because a friend asked my opinion of the inclusion of a bit of Black Panther history, and because it's a bunch of links to other commentary over there.
Short response to my homie: Sorry, dawg. All true.
Under normal circumstances I get cranky when folks use our history to leverage their issues. But this time it's understandable. The gender relations within the Black Panther Party at the time were pretty much like those in every other organization in the world.
Most progressives are still progressing, and the hardest errors to shake are those with the deepest roots, the greatest momentum. And as intractable as race in in America, I get the feeling feminists have an even longer row to hoe. I figure most folks still argue equality as though they mean functionally equivalent...and we may ultimately be able to convince folks that white is functionally equivalent to Black, but we will never convince them that male is functionally equivalent to female.
Not that a single feminist of my acquaintance has (or would) make such an argument. But it's like trying to convince the CEO of Barclays Bank of the benefits of socialism...your arguments don't present a single thing he, with his current outlook, sees as a benefit.
Part of the problem is the way your conversation started:
- Person 1: Women are like this
- Person 2: Women can do this too
- Person 1: Oh! Women are like this, plus they can do that too!
- Lather, rinse, repeat
All those extra "that too"s may eventually obscure the central image...but the curtains part once in a while...
And frankly, I believe that's the best you get at this point in history.
But don't stop. This is for your daughters, right? Because under the best of circumstances you will not live long enough to see your goal come about.
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Hmpf. Ok. I'm not sure I get
Hmpf. Ok. I'm not sure I get all of that, but there's enough there to make me stay my
handmouth. I was gonna say sumpthin. A post that does the stick and move with its intentions, hiding insinuations behind the clutter of other tangentially related issues, doesn't sit well with me.From what I see, her
From what I see, her intention was to illustrate that progressive movements historically have had issues including women...that they've essentially been the standard patriarchy. She gave a couple of examples of that and the Black Panther Party was among them. They got better as time passed (and Shelley noted that) but NO one has nailed it yet.
My shields go up reflexively when someone decides to use our issues for their benefit but I can't object when it's real history...joint history.
My bottom lip is still
My bottom lip is still protruding, but you're right P6. The truth does sting sometimes. I guess what rankled was that a post that concerned sensitivity used an iron glove to make a point. I mean, were there no other choices? Should I hold my breath for the day she brings up MLK's mistresses in a post about pious hypocracy?
I've seen many a pedantic boor sheild themselves in a nasty argument by holding up "the truth" as if that's the only worthwhile factor in human affairs. Anyway, i'll put my own shield down for the nonce.
Well, as for the iron glove, I can't hold folks to a higher standard than I uphold myself. I've been known to issue a "fuck you" as full response.
I don't know Shelley but I have read her stuff. I don't get the feeling that would be a concern.
Well, as for the iron glove,
Well, as for the iron glove, I can't hold folks to a higher standard than I uphold myself. I've been known to issue a "fuck you" as full response.
Crap. Me too. Fair enough.
I don't know Shelley but I have read her stuff. I don't get the feeling that would be a concern.
Hm. So there are sacred cows then, eh? Ok. We see.
So there are sacred cows
Context.
I myself might bring them up in a post about how even the best of us are but human. But yeah, pious hypocrasy would be beyond the pale when there are so many relevant examples laying all over the place.