Prometheus 6

There's nothing anti-intellectual with assimilation, integration, and accumulation of wealth.

I don't believe that was claimed.

We have accepted the anti-intellectual bias of the culture...more like we've tried to become members of an anti-intellectual culture. We've accepted the accumulation of wealth as a cause in and of itself. 

Other than that I got no beef. 

"There's nothing anti-intellectual with assimilation, integration, and accumulation of wealth."

I contend that anti-intelltualism is a central component of the America ethos, and as such it permeates every aspect of the culture. I'm not sure what you mean by the above statement, particularly when those who seek to assimilate to the America ethos also embrace the stupidification that goes along with it. And the idea of "integration" into a burning house (a racist, corrupt and morally bankrupt society) strikes me as the height of dumbassedness.

"Quite the contrary.  You'll frequently find those who claim to think for you trying to sell the virtues of poverty, or at least under-nourishment on the wealth axis. They'll try to bolster their case by appealing to one's sense of alienation. Alienation is a human emotional state, not at all peculiar to one race.  It's a weakness, but not one which cannot be overcome by the intellect."

I don't understand what this has to do with my prior comments.

"Crucial is the intellectual conclusion that random people, all of them, don't really give a shit. They're willing to be your friend, but not until you give them some reason to do so.  Until then, you don't really matter one way or the other. Some of those random people express this feeling in a way which invites, others expose their own lack of confidence by defaulting to a mildly hostile attitude. That's the alienation playing field."

Again, I don't see how "alienation" and the rest flows from the prior discussion.

"May you play the field well, and accumulate wealth in many ways." 

If you read my post you should be aware that I am against "primitive accumulation" (capitalism). But I'm all for sharing the wealth!

I'm not sure what you mean by the above statement, particularly when those who seek to assimilate to the America ethos also embrace the stupidification that goes along with it.

Let's say we asked two yes-no questions of every adult American.

1. Are you financially successful?
2. Do you consider yourself a participant in America?

Now we don't supply definitions, and the only possible answers are yes or no.

What we're going to find is that People who answer "yes" to the first question will answer "yes" to the second question with near certainty.

Of the people who answer "no" to the first question, a significant portion will answer "no" to the second.

Rather than discuss any distinction between "assimilation" and "integration", let's agree that the opposite of the two together is "alienation".  It's a state of mind where one feels importantly isolated from ordinary successful Americans.  It's common among those who do not believe themselves financially successful.

Various demagogues seek to exploit this state of affairs, using a technique which first suggests that ordinarily successful Americans are hostile, that they don't want new members.  Second, the speaker says "listen to me, join my thinking".  A problem this speaker has is that money thing.  He's not offering success, so he has to make a virtue out of failure, and a very common way to do this is to focus on some common imperfection of successful people and intensely disclaim that imperfection. The case concludes claiming superiority to successful people.

But when we look at what's going on from the outside, this guy is offering more of the same poverty, but feeling superior about it. 

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An alternative analysis focuses on that alienation thing to start with, because in and of itself it represents a barrier to financial success.  If the alienated person could see transparently into the mass of humanity which makes up successful America, and see how it works, imperfections and all, such alienation is reduced.  The successful people don't look so different after all...and maybe most importantly, it becomes obvious that successful people are not hostile to the interests of those seeking to join.  They may not care or be very helpful, but that's normal.  Such insight is the beginning of confidence.

Back to the two questions.  Answering the participant question "no" guarantees that one will not answer the financial one "yes", barring some fluke which isn't usually available.

I'm not sure that I can agree with the basic premise of your analogy/exercise, especially the idea that the opposite of assimilation/integration is alienation. I think it's possible to be opposed to "ass/in" (read: assmiliation/integration) from a standpoint of informed political opposition without suffering from the psychological feelings of "alienation." Despite my reservations, however, I don't disagree with you about the problems of "alienation" in the hearts and minds of black folks. And I think you are correct about the tendency of some folks (demagogues) to exploit this condition to our detriment.

I guess the other problem I have is with the word: "success." What defines "success" in America for black folks? Is success in this instance predicated by the accumulation of wealth and property? For a socialist like me, that is a totally unacceptable standard. Prime property in America used to be enslaved black men and women held in perpetual bondage. More slaves = more success. Bringing this analogy into the 21st century we could add "wages" into the mix, and success could be based on how big a payroll (how many employees) you have. So, more wage slaves = more success. Of course I'm being a little facetious here because not every one who works for an employer is a wage slave. But my socialist orientation dictates the view that we should all be owners (in some form or other) of the resources and means of production of the society. From this lens or perspective, then, it is impossible to see "ass/in" into the American mainstream resulting in the loss or diminishing of feelings of alienation. Granted, one may no longer be alienated from money. But the acquisition of wealth may mean the alienation from community, from humanity, from human compassion.

I guess when the soup boils down to a low gravy, we are still left to ponder what we are here in America to accomplish. And, equally important, what can America do for us? Some have suggested the souls of black folks comprise the real soul of America. Other have said we exemplify the promise of America, a promise that has not been kept. I don't believe America has a soul. And the promises the slaveocracy made in the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution were, in my opinion, nothing more or less than early forms of mad avenue propaganda. We've been sold a bill of goods, my friend. After more than two hundred years we're still paying interest with no principle (sic) in sight.

Is success in this instance predicated by the accumulation of wealth and property?

I'm with you OS when you believe that there's far more to life than the accumulation of wealth.  Family is of supreme importance to me.

But with no accumulation of wealth, two things go wrong:

1. People with money have immense power over you.
2. You're requiring someone else to pick up the slack when things go wrong.

Personally, I've been motivated by that first one since I was a kid.  When you need money right now, but have none accumulated, you're going to make bad deals to get the money, deals which make it even harder to get into accumulation mode.  Those people with money just grab you by the balls and twist...and there's nothing you can say because you want what they have.

$1,000 in the bank changes that entire equation.

The big accumulation is owning a home rather than granting power to a landlord.   

It's that kind of accumulation which defines "ordinary financial success", and it's that kind of success which I believe every American should understand how to get to.

what we are here in America to accomplish.

We're here to drink beer.

Yeah, yeah. The point is, there is no greater Truth which can supply the answers to that kind of question.  Your answer is good for you.  I like good dark beer.  Negra Modelo. Guinness.

However, there are plenty of things we can observe which actually work. Supportive Families. Supportive Communities.  This is my notion of socialism.  Small groups of people who bond and support each other as the needs and opportunities arise. Small enough that everyone is involved at least a little in everyone else's life. This kind of thing works, and we want our communities and our children to thrive, so we participate, and feel a profound sense of accomplishment when we see the success of others.  The reason that doesn't count as "what we are here to accomplish" is that it's not some universal Truth.  There's more than one way, more than one genuine accomplishment.