Prometheus 6

Well, I made my decision about Jesse Jackson in a suite at the Hyatt Regency Hotel during his first run for the Democratic Party's nomination. Rev. Jesse wouldn't even come out of his bedroom to say hello and thank a bunch of us, including at least two black elected officials, who had put together on extremely short notice the fundraising events that raked in enough cash so that Jackson and his entourage could afford, among other things, to spend the night at the Hyatt Regency etc.

By the time our group returned to the hotel's lobby I had decided to have nothing more to do with Jesse Jackson and his people. My colleagues urged me to reconsider but all these years later I still feel I made the right decision. It was one of the most ugly and disappointing small group political meetings I have ever attended. Jackson and his people, in my opinion, had no sense of shame or grace.

All that being said I would still choose to ignore Oliver Wills' call because he really does not believe in promoting and exploring the diversity of viewpoints within the black electorate. I respect people who respect Jesse and I don't believe Wills does at all.

I made my decision when I learned from my lifelong activist elders about the theft of approximately $700K in Breadbasket funds.., waaaaaaay back in the day. The "reverend" is an elderly egomaniacal oxygen thief with a total paucity of new policies, programs, and procedures, and no meaningful partisan implementations. He's gotta go.

The same metrics should be applied to each and every self-appointed kneegrow orator. Not a single one will be shown to measure up to the attention that each one craves and gluttonously hogs. A conspiratorially minded observer might conclude that the mainstream media pays attention to these preachers precisely because they're so demonstrably useless.

My comment was made more or less tongue-in-cheek but I'm tired of Jesse running to the camera and claiming to be the voice of black leadership time and again. Yeah, sure, he went through the fire but for the last 10-15 years he's more shakedown artist than civil rights fighter.

I feel like doing a little s**t disturbing so I'm going to add a few more details about that meeting with Rev. Jesse and his people so that folks understand that there were real principled issues involved not ego clashes. How is this for starters? Jesse's people (Dukakis was right. A fish rots from its head.) initially refused to pay the owner of the limousine service who had provided the Cadillacs and Lincolns they had ridden all over the Bay Area in that day, evening and night. This was a black owned and operated company!

The Jackson Team had the nerve to tell us that we should have the brother send them a bill when they were walking around the hotel suite with paper bags stuffed full of cash from people who had put money in the "collection plates" that were circulated at the events I mentioned previously. We pitched a fit when we heard this because we knew that they had no intention of paying this man for the services he had provided to them. They finally relented when Gus Newport, who was the mayor of Berkeley at the time, shamed them by reminding them that the limousine owner was a working man with a family to support. It was only at that point that these so-called brothers relented and gave up the money.

One of Jesse's cut buddies, who was the minister of a very large and active black church in Oakland, actually had the gall to bring two gun toting "bodyguards" into our meeting. Here we are trying to have a serious discussion about organizing a presidential political campaign in the Bay Area and we have to share the living room of a hotel suite with two suit wearing thugs packing heat. Our group had obtained the unpaid volunteered services of more than a dozen off-duty police officers and deputy sheriffs to provide security for Jesse and his group. Several of them were stationed outside his room at the hotel so there was no need for anyone to bring folks with guns into a meeting unless they were trying to intimidate people.

Again, Jesse never came out of the bedroom to even thank us for all the work that had been done on his behalf.

There is more but I have to haul up here.

A combined NOI/Def Jam contingent spearheaded by the dishonorable Min. Benjamin Chavis Muhammad and some cussing buffoon, (I don't even remember the headlining rapper's name now) came to KC in 2004 and pulled EXACTLY this same type of scandalous zipcoon thuggery. They were outright no shows at the three events they were scheduled to headline and instead hung out at the hotel with their entourages running up immense room service tabs.

The only saving grace for the brother who'd been ripped off in bringing them to KC was a local young white rapper who covertly photographed these fools tucking bucks at a skanky strip club on the east side of town. The brother in question had to actually issue press releases threatening to publish the photos of Chavis tucking bucks in order to get the NOI and Def Jam to reimburse him for his expenses. Of course he never recovered the enormous social capital he lost locally due to those humiliating event no shows.

Yeah, sure, he went through the fire but for the last 10-15 years he's more shakedown artist than civil rights fighter.

I don't agree with the shakedown artist accusation at all.  But he's not a civil rights activist anymore so much as he's a diversity coordinator.

... especially now that he has jumped on the "Kramer" issue and is asking people to boycott the DVD. Give me a break! I wish he'd sit down some where - he and Al both!

intuiting all that's been said above - and sparing myself the hassle of even a phukkin' mention in any that I do - for 22 years. god bless the ancestors and the capacity to trust the spirit. walk on.

The object of Jesse Jackson's scorn usually find the way out is to line Jesse Jackson's pockets. That's a shakedown no matter the skin color.

Could you elaborate on who's opinions I've silenced or ignored? That's a pretty strong accusation without factual backup.

[P6: You can't tell now, but the complaint was legit]

I agree that "shakedown artist" sounds like empty white MSM rhetoric. White pols and activists fund raise and negotiate, while their black counterparts "shakedown" and "play the race card"

cnulan, "zipcoon thuggery": lol.

The object of Jesse Jackson's scorn usually find the way out is to line Jesse Jackson's pockets.

You mean he draws a salary for negotiating for the Rainbow Coalition? How would you have him pay bills?

No one here, including me, is lauding the man's recent work. But at last check he was still the most trusted Black figure working the civil rights beat. Black folks want him to do what he does, Black folks have benefitted from his work, and he has to eat.

I wonder how much the RC pays him? Is he wealthy? Who makes more, him or Creflo Dollar? Nevermind T.D. Jakes.

No, you can say he's ineffective if you want, you can say he's effective but persuing the wrong things. But the shakedown artist tag is just unfair and inaccurate.

I wonder how much the RC pays him? Is he wealthy? Who makes more, him or Creflo Dollar? Nevermind T.D. Jakes.

No, you can say he's ineffective if you want, you can say he's effective but persuing the wrong things. But the shakedown artist tag is just unfair and inaccurate.

There's another huge hole in your bucket magne.  Jesse Jackson has been a multimillionaire for a quite a number of years, and he has been stealing from Black folks since the early 1970's.  Some of his biggest holdings include beer distribution franchises. 

Jesse Jackson has been a multimillionaire for a quite a number of years,

Okay.

and he has been stealing from Black folks since the early 1970's.

Does not follow. Give me an example of theft.

A majority of black folks still look up to and regard Br. Jesse as a legitimate spokesperson for their interests. I think it also true, however, that he has not been a good steward of their political capital. In fact, I would argue that Br. Jesse's well documented need to be the center of attention; his lack of sustained focus and his failure to delegate responsibility for fear that someone else may garner the attention and kudos that he craves has played a significant role in diminishing black political capital.

In the early 1990s, for example, Rev. Jesse publicly announced that he was going to start a program to train young African Americans in all phases of electoral politics and political campaign management. Press releases were distributed, items were printed in newspapers, money was collected and nothing happened. Nothing.

An opportunity to create a cadre and generation of non-aligned black folks who possessed the technical skills and savvy to run political campaigns was lost. What else was lost was the chance for young black people to tap into the millions of dollars that are spent on political campaigns every year in this country.

Here's my thing. I keep hearin implied criminality and never get anything bad enough to justify the accusation...and it ain't like I don't watch that sort of thing nowadays.

Like I said, tell me ineffectiveness, mismanagement...there's all manner of accusations there's at least arguable support for. But name me one instance of a "shake-down" that didn't result in more Black folk getting exposure and experience in a field they'd have never seen otherwise? And how many of those fields remain open nowadays?

And by the 90s, young activists were as likely to join up with the NAACP as Rev. Jackson's program...maybe I'm naive, but I assumed no one wanted to join.

Basically, I see no reason to assume criminality on Rev. Jackson's part, so I reject the implication. 

Does not follow. Give me an example of theft.

Here you go.

(begs the question what possible motive would I have for impugning the right reverend's reputation - had I not heard these stories and witnessed comparable recent examples of zipcoon thuggery me damn self?)

Ship me a link to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth while you're at it.

Yes, I read that crap. WorldNetDaily starts with a deficit of credibility, and it never moved up from its starting point.

there are ready civil remedies for libel and slander.., when a multimillionaire political figure is wrongfully impugned, he/she can readily afford to obtain relief in a court of law. that your beloved reverend zipcoon the thug hasn't exercised his legal remedies speaks volumes to the underlying truth of the matter.

I heard the exact same Abernathy story from local elders who were present at the time. that this story has been published in a book simply means I don't have to call somebody and transcribe what they tell me.

Believe whatever you like, but in the future, don't make such tortious fuss about how logical, factual, or rational your positions are in light of your uncritical and unwarranted hero worship on this thread...,

The Abernathy story isn't about criminal behavior. That's what I'm asking about.

your beloved reverend zipcoon

And let's not get personal. 

A: That's right. He goes there for the cameras, and you are going to hear that in this story. He was not up on the balcony with Martin Luther King. He was down in the parking lot talking to a bunch of musicians – Ben Branch and others. When the shots rang out, he fled and hid behind the swimming pool area and reappeared 20-30 minutes later when the television cameras arrived on the scene. That's when Jesse Jackson told other Southern Christian Leadership Conference staffers, "Don't you talk to the press whatever you do."

Q: That's my job!

A: Yes, that's my job. Nobody had given him that job. He took that job. Call it "entrepreneurial instinct" if you wish, but on the spot he realized that he had an opportunity to spin the events to create his own persona and create a possibility for him to become a leader in the black movement. He had no prospects at that point.

That is just the most grotesque spin.

As a public figure, Rev. Jackson's chances in a slander or libel suit are about nil (and you know that, right?). Meanwhile, as many people as are on his ass, if there was a chance in hell he was guilty of anything they'd have dug it out by now.

Well, spin it may be but Rev. Jesse was not on the balcony when Dr. King was shot but he walked around with a bloodstained shirt for at least a day trying to give everyone the impression that he had cradled the head of the mortally wounded Dr. King in his lap. 

I don't know if Rev. Jesse has actually committed any felonies or not, save for probably smoking some boo or doing a little toot, but a man who would put himself in the center of a monstrous crime as though he too was a victim is a man who is capable of doing anything. Anything at all.  

Well, spin it may be but Rev. Jesse was not on the balcony when Dr. King was shot but he walked around with a bloodstained shirt for at least a day trying to give everyone the impression that he had cradled the head of the mortally wounded Dr. King in his lap.

Have I complained about that representation? Nooooo.

Why we gotta accuse him of a crime? If y'all can't get him legit, doesn't that say something? Even multimillionare Black folks are subject to specious criminalization? 

You want Jackson, get him. But do it correct.

I haven't accused Br. Jesse of any crimes because I don't have any evidence or even the words of someone he might have stuck-up. I am charging him with incompetence, mismanagement, egocentric selfishness, poor stewardship and neglect. Did I miss anything?  

You want Jackson, get him. But do it correct.

I simply want him and the rest of the oxygen thieving old guard off the stage and out of the way..., the age of national salvatory politics is waaaay past over and the era of local revelatory politics could get moving mo better mo quickly if these useless dinosaurs were removed from mass public attention.

They're like a bad habit...,

Angle of insertion. Trajectory.

In other words, the means determines the nature of the ends.

If we can't even do it right when just talking, how are we going to do it in real life? 

I'm no defender of Rev. Jackson or any other MacDaddy minister, and I think we have been misled too long by too many of those fools in leadership positions. That being said, I think it's important to remember one thing here: the struggle road is long, hard and unforgiving. It can bend you, throw curves at you, detour you down nefarious paths. It can warp and corrupt your ass in many ways, that is, if you live long enough. If you can avoid assassination, drug or alcohol addiction, heart attack or stroke, you can still be forced to cop out, drop out, opt out, crap out, sell out or nut out. It's a hella row to hoe. Ask Winnie Mandela.

While I agree with PT's assessment of the Jackson record--"I am charging him with incompetence, mismanagement, egocentric selfishness, poor stewardship and neglect"--I won't reduce his entire career to only its failures. Despite his shortcomings, and, granted, they are legion, Jesse has been a major player in the struggle. He's a flawed player, but who isn't? I know a woman who had a long-term affair with Martin Luther King. She wasn't the only beneficiary of his bed-swerving and midnight creeping. But that fact does not prevent me from separating his personal life from his political agenda and accomplishments. We hafta keep these things in perspective even as we escort counterproductive members of the "old guard" into early retirement.

I bow in your general direction.

I won't reduce his entire career to only its failures.

You are correct. Br. Jesse is much more than the sum of his failures. And as Richie Havens sings, "It is a long hard road."  

It took many, many, many years and much heartbreak and loss before Winnie Mandela succombed.

The only problem is that Br. Jesse gave up his integrity quite early in his journey. He didn't stand up half as long as Winnie and she faced far, far, far greater dangers and loss.  

Don't get me started on Winnie. I believe the sister deserved better. I understand symbolism, and all respect to Bro. Mandela, but Winnie Mandela held shit down while he was imprisoned. She didn't fold any more than he did...and I do believe she was moved aside because too many people couldn't follow a woman. They saw her as a placeholder all alone.

"The only problem is that Br. Jesse gave up his integrity quite early in his journey.

True dat.

Winnie did deserve better for the reasons you articulated, P6. I only mentioned her because she serves as a prime example of how one can lose one's way while trying desperately to do the right thing and survive in the process.

I'll have to plead ignorance of her fall from grace. Wiki (not the final source of truth) writes: "In July 2004, an appeal judge of the Pretoria High Court ruled that "the crimes were not committed for personal gain". The judge overturned the conviction for theft, but upheld the one for fraud, handing her a three years and six months suspended sentence[4]."

As for the more serious charge of her complicity in kidnapping and murder, I won't presume to know what happened or to judge the actors - because in the context of that intergenerational war, a 14 year old is hardly a boy - and I have not read the proceedings of the trial.  A significant level of review on my part would be needed before I jumped into those waters.  Moreover, "[I]n 1991, she was convicted of kidnapping and being an accessory to assault in connection with the death of Moeketsi. Her six-year jail sentence was reduced to a fine on appeal."

Certainly she is not perfect, but she seems to be a poor subject of comparison for Reverend Jackson.  Among my fundamental beliefs is the fact the moral perfection is not a requirement for this work - but competence certainly is essential.  I do not think the Reverend dumb, regardless of his educational attainments.  Moreover, I don't believe in accidents: as in "we fundraised, but we couldn't get it off the ground."  

Oddly enough, both Ms. Mandela and Rev. Jackson share similar middle-class backgrounds.  

I think there is some confusion here. My point was that Winnie Mandela held everything together under some of the most extreme circumstances for a very, very long time. She was (and is) a rock. She is an admirable person in so many ways. Nonetheless, some part of her sense of restraint and empathy withered away. It could happen to any of us.

I was not comparing her to Rev. Jesse as much as I was using her to illustrate how difficult it is to stand against the tide. The fact that she was acquitted of certain crimes doesn't reassure me. We do not have to place her on a pedestal to continue to respect and admire her.

Thanks for the clarification. As I said, there is much more to know there - and because of the complexities, I don't claim any false knowledge here. And, I don't have a judgment one way or the other with respect to Winnie Mandela. Thanks again.