Prometheus 6

Good start!

So, I wasn't surprised to find out the one of the idea's main backers is a former NOI member. I can't see how this could hurt. The Black community is waiting for the Black man to take his place again as the head of the community. He is so needed.

I like what Spence said.

We're talking basic government services here. Pay your taxes and get less two thirds the services a citizen is entitled to? And give up your seat on the bus... 

Isn't that what we need? More positive activism on part of the citizenry?

What we NEED is equal protection under the law. And if Black men in Philly have to do this, it should be done with the public understanding of why it is necessary.

I am in complete agreement with Spence. If Philadelphia and its current government and political leaders cannot provide for the safety of the citizens of Philadelphia then every single one of them should resign from their jobs and offices including Mayor John Street. Why is the burden of policing criminals being thrust on the backs of black men most of whom are not criminals and pay taxes? I live 40 miles from Philadelphia and I am increasingly growing to think that it is a city run by fools and knaves.

This reminds me of Louis Farrakhan's idiotic Day of Atonement. I was brought into this world and raised by black men (and women too) who did not have a damn thing to atone for.

It sounds to me like a very crafty way to push conflict resolution counseling through the city population and promote peer-to-peer intervention before crimes of violence happen.

 Is this any way to run a city? Beats me. It's creative thinking, though.

If this program was proposed by any other city in the country then it might well serve as an example of creative thinking.

It sounds to me like a very crafty way to push conflict resolution counseling through the city population and promote peer-to-peer intervention before crimes of violence happen.

Bullshit.

See right up there at the top? It says, "Comments?". I aim to please.

Why are people so pessimistic and quick to find fault and say something won't work? While some of you are saying tax dollars should pay for equal police protection others complain that the police harrass people, shoot them for no reason, and are corrupt. Others say its time for us to police ourselves and take responsibility for our communities instead of expecting the police and "the man" to do it for us. There is no pleasing everyone.

 I think it would be a great idea to have rent-a-cops all over the place. I think they should be armed with pepperspray or something though and maybe there should be video cameras up and bullet-proof vests to protect the guards. Even alarm buttons can be placed around to alert the police or volunteers if there is a crime. So those of you who don't think its a good idea to ask men to volunteer for a few hours a week to protect the areas they live in then what is your alternative? Higher taxes that can be mismanaged and directed into richer neighbourhoods?Raising taxes for better police protection is something that can be worked on at the same time but in the meantime the volunteers might be able to reduce crime rates so maybe that extra money won't be needed for police protection anymore. Maybe more taxes for street lights and videocameras? Again, this can be set up at the same time.

Really, if men want to step up and volutneer to police the streets then I would just pat them on the back and say thank you for doing this. Why would you criticize a volunteer program???? Note that many people volunteer to do things and run programs without any govenment help. Should all those programs be scrapped so everything is placed in government hands? Do you really trust the government to take care of Black people better than we can take care of ourselves given our history? I think those programs are in place because the government is not providing an alternative. Thats why volunteers are needed. If there were enough police and funds to police the street and if crime was being controlled then they wouldn't need volunteers now would they?

 Just my two cents :) 

This is evidence that in Philly (which from my experience, fits the profile) that social segregation is alive and well. I use the term 'social segregation' lightly because I'm fleshing it out. It's basically that the idea of separatism is alive. People *expect* that there is something fundamentally different about black crime, and therefore that there must be some kind of separate solution to it. People then accept that there is fundamentally something different about how black suspects and criminals must be treated and how black families must be organized etc. This is a regional / social / cultural /political thing that's working its way back to Jim Crow. The idea of equality is being undermined from both sides of the law. 

Something like 'support your local police' just doesn't work with the black community in Philly. Instead some bizarre hybrid of protest politics and  God knows what else is informing this situation. 

I agree that black residents of Philadelphia should expect and deserve equal protection from police. But that also means they should give equal respect for and collaboration with police. I hope this idea never gets off the ground. It's nothing more or less than a call for an ethnic militia, the root of all unrest in the modern world. 

We yield the floor to Cobb.

But I add the first sincere move must come from the police. They have the least to lose.

Quaker:

I was at my sister's house checking in. If I were at home I might have expressed that more politely. But this ain't about teaching conflict resolution. It's the Philadelphia Chief of Police saying to the Black community, "I can't help you...you're on your own."

The difference between this and having police ask for neighborhoods to perform block watchers is what?

It's the Philadelphia Chief of Police saying to the Black community, "I can't help you...you're on your own."

I won't disagree.

But if I put myself in the chief's shoes, here's how my thinking goes:

1) I got a big problem. The rates of murder and violent crime are up and if something doesn't change, I'm fired.

2) I can't put enough police officers out there to prevent violent crime. It's hard enough to chase the offenders after the fact.

3) My job would be a hell of a lot easier if folks would just stop trying to kill each other.

4) I could try to send out counselors and activists and social workers and whatall to try to talk sense into people--but the people who need to hear it won't listen.

5) I gotta find another way to appeal to the people who are most likely to be perpetrators--or victims--of violent crime. How can I get their attention? What do you think, Mr. Dennis Muhammad?

Now if this is the chief's train of thought, does that mean he has pretty much given up hope of doing his own job? Maybe so.

Geez! Ask people to take more of an active role in their cities and suddenly there is a police conspiracy to get out of doing their work. I guess some of you would be happier if the police just continued to do what they were doing because anything new is immediately dismissed as them not doing their job. Just like we expect teachers to teach our kids everything and for our doctors to be totally responsible for our health. We have to do our share too!

DarkStar:

The difference between this and having police ask for neighborhoods to perform block watchers is what?

The same as the difference between defending your home and raising an army.

10,000 on regular patrol? Come on, man...a difference in degree like that is a difference in kind. It is the very militia for whom the 2nd Amendment was written, and they're talking about not arming them?

Quaker:

1) I got a big problem. The rates of murder and violent crime are up and if something doesn't change, I'm fired.

How long have you had the problem, and what have you done about it so far?

2) I can't put enough police officers out there to prevent violent crime. It's hard enough to chase the offenders after the fact.

Here's the problem. Cops don't prevent crime, they catch criminals. Which is why I ask, "How long have you had the problem, and what have you done about it so far"

3) My job would be a hell of a lot easier if folks would just stop trying to kill each other.

Okay.

4) I could try to send out counselors and activists and social workers and whatall to try to talk sense into people--but the people who need to hear it won't listen.

No you cannot try sending out councelors, etc. You are not the Mayor. And you ARE trying to send out activists, aren't you?

5) I gotta find another way to appeal to the people who are most likely to be perpetrators--or victims--of violent crime. How can I get their attention? What do you think, Mr. Dennis Muhammad?

I think you're dicking around with definitions instead of getting physical. If we make a short list of things that would make for a successful appeal, not one is within the purview of the police department.

Trinity:

I guess some of you would be happier if the police just continued to do what they were doing because anything new is immediately dismissed as them not doing their job.

If you have knowledge, clarity and your position is the result of reasoning and experience, you cannot be shamed.

Just like we expect teachers to teach our kids everything and for our doctors to be totally responsible for our health. We have to do our share too!

The "we" you mention is not my concern here. The "we" with poor to no access to health care, the "we" with the shitty schools who DON'T expect teachers to teach our kids anything is my concern.

Do your share...and the police department's share too.

Bronze look at that line about knowledge and clarity, about reason and experience.

Then think hard about four questions. 

1. What is the proper role of government?

2. What is the duty of the citizen when government fails?

3. Where does crime come from?

4. Where does crime committed by black people come from?

My answers to the questions will be different from yours. I am guessing that you are asking them because you expect your answers to be based on more knowledge, clairity, reasoning and experience. So please share your answers to the questions?

 My answer to #1 is, I really don't care. I doubt that people who have been victims or have had loved one's as victims care who is protecting them as long as someone is doing it. The government should be doing it but if they can't then I don't think people should just accept that and wait to become victims.

My answer to #2 is I believe I answered that in my comment above. Apathy, helplessness, and dependence are not virtues. People have to get the government to do what they want to start taking over some government responsibilities. Private sector companies do that sort of thing.

 My answer to #3 is I'm not going to get into an intellectual discussion about where crime comes from when this is a simple instance of the police asking people to volunteer to provide security on their own streets. I'm not going to get into systematic, racism, poverty, lack of employment, drug enforcement laws, single parent homes and all that stuff because it takes away from the simple premise that maybe volunteers can help police the streets. All those other things can be addressed but that doesn't mean all other ideas have to be squashed first. A pilot volunteer study with positive results is a good idea in my opinion. 

My answer to #4 is the same as the one above. I'm sure there are lots of studies about crime and its causes and yet no one has implemented all the solutions proposed in those studies to create crime free cities. Looking at causes is important, but I am really tired of the attitude we have gotten about giving up on things before even trying at all. From what I have read before, community policing helped to reduce crime rates in the past. Frankly, the people of Philidelphia will do what they want and I hope this works for them and then many other cities do the same thing. Unless someone has concrete proof (i.e., an example where this type of program has been implimented before and had disasterous results) then I don't think you have any proof that this would be a bad thing that should not be tried. 

You know, Bronze

My answer to #1 is, I really don't care.

My answer to #2 is I believe I answered that in my comment above

My answer to #3 is I'm not going to get into an intellectual discussion about where crime comes from when this is a simple instance of the police asking people to volunteer to provide security on their own streets.

My answer to #4 is the same as the one above.

I'm not impressed. At all.

From what I have read before, community policing helped to reduce crime rates in the past.

Yes.

But what Philadelphia's police chief is suggesting is NOT community policing.

With community policing, the police and police department are involved as members of the community. Cities and counties that subscribe to this philosophy tend to do much more community work than traditional police departments. This often includes having more police officers who "walk the beat" as opposed to driving around in police cars. The basic idea is to create bonds of trust and reliance between police and the public.

This approach requires officers to be open minded, unbiased, and sensitive to the concerns and problems of others; also known as the new policing paradigm. Even if officers do not agree with a complainant's viewpoint, they should try to listen and understand the problem. Police should display empathy and compassion with sincerity, not in a rehearsed way. Police must also develop skill in planning, problem solving, organization, interpersonal communications, and perhaps most importantly critical thinking.

IN fact, it is the opposite of community policing.

Community policing was just a word I used to describe the volunteer program they are trying to start. If community policing means something else then substitute that word for whatever they are calling the program.

 Really, you are not impressed by my answers? How is that relevant? Do you think I went out of my way to impress you or something? Get over yourself. These are just comments on a blog.

Community policing was just a word I used to describe the volunteer program they are trying to start. If community policing means something else then substitute that word for whatever they are calling the program.

Then you have NOT heard of community policing. You haven't heard of anything like trying to mobilize a 10,000 person militia, or telling a community that policing is THEIR responsibility, not the police's. 

Do you think I went out of my way to impress you or something?

I don't recall inviting you...

Get over yourself. These are just comments on a blog.

So your comments are pointless and useless, huh?

I don't think you want to play the dozens. You'll get your feelings hurt.

Bronze Trinity came sincerely and transparently, and you're grandstanding. It's your platform to grandstand from, but don't pretend there's anything deep informing your stance, particularly given the extent to which you've decried and protested aggressive policing in New York City.

The tableau you've set here is ripe for a Manhattan Institute/pro-Giuliani butt-reaming. I'd expect you to do a better job of keeping accounts - at least to the extent that you know that you can't have it both ways logically and factually.

Any minute now, (maybe sooner) I expect you'll be reduced to pure editorial abuse, de-vowelling commenters who're disembowling the paradox you've set for yourself.

Until you actually say something.

I think what the chief is trying to do is a good thing. I currently live in Chicago, and getting fellow Black men to take more of a leadership role in the community is something that I’m deeply involved with, though it is a struggle. It’s funny how many complain that Black men won’t “step up”, that our communities are devoid of real leaders, but when a real Black male leader encourages other Black men to step up he is criticized for it or efforts minimized. Not to minimize the efforts of our women but Black men are vital to the recovery of the Black community.

There IS a need for Black men to take THE leadership role in our community. Chief Johnson, like some of us, is not comfortable with the conditions of the Black community.  And he is in a prime position to make this call. Evidently his city is not willing or incapable of protecting his Philadelphia Black community, so using his prime position as police chief to make this call is necessary and probably over due.

I cannot, and will not disagree with the Brotha. And for anyone, especially Blacks, to criticize his efforts is both foolish and shameful.           

It’s funny how many complain that Black men won’t “step up”, that our communities are devoid of real leaders, but when a real Black male leader encourages other Black men to step up he is criticized for it or efforts minimized.

Fortunately I've never made such complaints so I can examine it with clean hands. Neither has Spence. Or PTCruiser. What Cobb wrote here just happens to be right this time.

Shaming only works when you've done something shameful.

My comment was not directed towards Spence, PTCruiser, or Cobb. I don't think they said anything foolish or shameful. Although I didn't agree whith all that they said I did, however, understand it. But I did disagree totally with Bronze Trinity. Plus, I've debated this issue with someone I'll call a contributor of the Chicago Sun-Times and a frequent gest to this blog.

Bronze Trinity agrees with the police chief's plan, as you do.

The fact is, I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority on this issue. 

...you would see this proposal for what it is: a complete abdication of one of the fundamental responsibilities of government. Ten thousand black men wearing leather jackets and wool berets are not going to stop knuckleheads in Philadelphia from popping caps at folks. We're talking here about a city where six weeks ago some fool shot a 14 year-old boy to death because the 14 year-old, who was riding a bicycle, did not get out of the way of the shooter's car fast enough. Can you dig that kind of madness?

Philly is a city where its first black mayor allowed the police department to drop a fire bomb on a house sitting in the middle of a densely packed residential neighborhood and then refused to order the fire department to put out the fire, which resulted in several deaths and the complete destruction of 52 single family homes. One man lost his prize jazz and blues record collection that he had been putting together since the late 1930s.

Then to add more misery to this mostly working class black neighborhood the city, again under black leadership and control, gave the contract to rebuild these homes to a crooked, shady black contractor who completely bungled the project. Not content with burning up their neighborhood and hiring a crook who stole the money and did shoddy work, the city, now under the leadership of another black mayor, has resisted and refuses to spend any additional money to repair these homes.

Now the police chief, under this same mayor, throws up his hands and says that he needs ten thousand black men to patrol the streets of that city to restore law and order. No, that is not quite correct. The police chief and others who support this bit of lunacy have the cajones to suggest that black men have some moral duty to patrol the streets. That they should "step up" and "do the right thing." Bullshit. They are already stepping up and doing the right thing day-after-day-year-in-and-year-out. City government needs to step up and take its collective head out of its collective ass.

Sylvester Johnson should be fired and John Street and the entire City Council including the three useless County Commissioners should be put on a leaky rowboat and set adrift on the Delaware River. Instead of using their political power to dismantle and overhaul a decrepit, creaking system that was dying in 1903, they acted instead as if they had died and gone to heaven when black folks finally got their deserved turn at the helm. The tragedy is that they had inherited a broken system. The deeper tragedy is that they thought that whatever had been done in 1926 could still be done in the same way today.

The truth is that they have provided no more leadership or vision to Philly than the white ethnic sleazeballs who ran City Hall 30 years ago and earlier. There is a persistent myth among white folks around here that things in Philly were run better in the past. That is, before "they" took over. This is romantic, racist nonsense. Philly was run no better when folks like Frank Rizzo were in charge than today when folks like John Street are running things. The great hope of many of us across the country - not just black folks - was that when the urban ethnic racist regimes that ran our municipal governments for the first 70 years of the 20th Century were supplanted that the succeeding regimes would act differently. Our hopes were misplaced.    

Here's the problem. Cops don't prevent crime, they catch criminals. Which is why I ask, "How long have you had the problem, and what have you done about it so far"

Well now, right there is the problem. Cops don't prevent crime. The correct way to measure the performance of Chief Johnson's department is how many criminals they catch. Nevertheless, fair or not, he's taking heat for the crime rate.

And that brings us to your next point: 

If we make a short list of things that would make for a successful appeal, not one is within the purview of the police department.

Well, OK. I'll buy that. So that leaves Chief Johnson with what choices, exactly? I'll give him credit for coming up with something. And the way I read it, he's using Mr. Muhammad as his cat's paw to get people to the table.

Well now, right there is the problem.

No, that isn't the problem, that's the JOB DESCRIPTION. Call any police department in the country and tell them someone is following you after threatening you. They will tell you they can't do anything until a crime is committed.

So that leaves Chief Johnson with what choices, exactly?

Apparently none, except retirement and putting people already at risk in further danger.

But I add the first sincere move must come from the police. They have the least to lose.

Why hasn't the fundamental best practice of disentangling corporate vs. individual motive and behaviour informed your responses to the comments? (here using "corporate" to describe the police department as an organizational construct)

Seeing corporate behavior as rooted in the people who work within them is like believing that the problems of television are attributable solely to its program content. With corporations, as with television, the basic problems are actually structural. They are problems inherent in the forms and rules by which these entities are compelled to operate. If the problems could be traced to the personnel involved, they could be solved by changing the personnel. Unfortunately, however, all employees are obligated to act in concert, to behave in accordance with corporate form and corporate law. If someone attempted to revolt against these tenets, it would only result in the corporation throwing the person out, and replacing that person with another who would act according to the rules.

Form determines content.

Corporations are machines.

The great hope of many of us across the country - not just black folks - was that when the urban ethnic racist regimes that ran our municipal governments for the first 70 years of the 20th Century were supplanted that the succeeding regimes would act differently. Our hopes were misplaced.

This machine is badly broken..., no succeeding regime that I'm aware of has managed to systematically address (much less repair) the badly broken machines that they inherited. Ideally, the popo's mission would be to fairly and uniformly protect and serve the interests of its constituents. Problem is, much like students in urban public school systems and wack public school administrations, those citizens long ago ceased to be the popo's primary constituents, and there's really no one in that city up to the task of re-engineering the structure of the organization so as to make it accountable to its ideal mission. I'd be willing to bet that the framework of municipal, state, and federal measures and incentives doesn't exist to support such an effort.

Briefly, my father-in-law who is 68 years old is the best possible grandfather to my children that I could ever hope for. (I say this to underscore the fact that I take great pains not to antagonize him) He made his career in increasingly responsible roles in New Jersey in law enforcement. To converse with him at any length, is to hear tales from the popo.., inevitably in the course of these narratives he will touch upon profound conflicts between the operational priorities of the police departments he's worked for and his own sense of right and wrong. (particularly as these pertain to profiling and hyper-aggressive policing in Black communities - something systematically rewarded by policing organizations both locally and federally which reward individual officers for quantity not quality of arrests, and, which reward policing organizations with incentives like property forfeitures)

Bottom-line, he will systematically walk himself into some disturbing and ethically irreconcilable retrospective paradoxes and then get upset. Like I said, I appreciate him too much to try to instigate these moments - so I've learned to try to leave this subject matter alone when kicking it with him.

The same thing was true of my best and closest friend from highschool. He became an adrenaline addicted cowboy narcotics detective and who never once questioned the propriety of what he was doing. He was in a system and riding it for all it was worth because it was giving him unprecedented access and exposure, power, and feeding his novelty and thrill seeking. He didn't slow his role until the sheriff's detective crew he belonged to turned up on national evening news for an outrageous scandal.

Busted and broken down to his last compound, and lacking any alternatives, dood wised up and changed his ways and completely re-invented himself from scratch. There are always choices that individuals can make to try to function as change agents, or, to personally make the best of a bad situation, or get the hell up out of dodge. However - seldom in practice do individuals have the knowledge, skill, ability, power and determination to re-invent organizations.

Well now, right there is the problem. Cops don't prevent crime. The correct way to measure the performance of Chief Johnson's department is how many criminals they catch. Nevertheless, fair or not, he's taking heat for the crime rate.

and

No, that isn't the problem, that's the JOB DESCRIPTION. Call any police department in the country and tell them someone is following you after threatening you. They will tell you they can't do anything until a crime is committed.

There are no salvatory successors to chief johnson waiting in the wings. Any and all parties qualified on paper either externally or internal to that department are products of broken machine organizations and thus unlikely to have the knowledge, skill, ability, power, and determination to innovate fundamental organizational change.

Why hasn't the fundamental best practice of disentangling corporate vs. individual motive and behaviour informed your responses to the comments?

It has. That's why I'm against taking the weight off the city (where it belongs) and putting it on the Black population.,

and the community as an organizational construct?

What you've unsaid here is the mirror image of a lopsided negro conservative rant. Those jokers would say that it's all down to the community to reconfigure it's moral turpitude, and failing to do so, phukkem.

For your part, even when common sense and the pervasive material conditions on the ground in every city where this issue is out of kilter, indicate that cities lack the managerial wherewithal to correct their core machinic organizational deficiencies - (which is why I inserted public schools as an analogous example) all you got is "I'm against taking the weight off the city (where it belongs)??????"

surely you can do better than that?

What you've unsaid here is the mirror image of a lopsided negro conservative rant. Those jokers would say that it's all down to the community to reconfigure it's moral turpitude, and failing to do so, phukkem.

If you have knowledge, clarity and your position is the result of reasoning and experience, you cannot be shamed

Further, "mirror image" doesn't connect me to black Conservatism as it seems you would like.

Until you have an actual discussion of the problem, I'm not real concerned about what you're saying. 

If you have knowledge, clarity and your position is the result of reasoning and experience, you cannot be shamed

you couldn't be shamed in any event, however, your conspicuous lack of concrete prescriptions doesn't exactly put you on a strong footing to claim any of the above virtues - as regards this issue you're empty handed and evading...,

as for me, it's an issue that I do personally engage, on the ground, here at home and on that basis know exactly whereof I speak...,

you couldn't be shamed in any event

True. So stop trying.

it's an issue that I do personally engage, on the ground, here at home and on that basis know exactly whereof I speak

You're recruiting 10,000 Black men to replace the police, while still paying their salaries with your taxes? That's the topic, which you haven't discussed at all. You're impressing me less than Bronze Trinity. At least she addressed the topic.

You're done getting personal yet? You ready to talk about WHY it's a good idea for 10,000 Black folks to do the work they pay taxes to have done? You ready to talk about why Philadelphia should be allowed to abandon its responsibilities...or at least how your assuming their job will get them to do their job?

as regards this issue you're empty handed and evading

Because this issue increases the problem. It is no solution...it just seeks to get the people under attack to backfill the very system that abandoned them.

The solution does not exist in this domain.

Unless you, with your personal experience and all. know how to make it work. If so, share. If not, stop bothering me. 

[quote]I am in complete agreement with Spence. If Philadelphia and its current government and political leaders cannot provide for the safety of the citizens of Philadelphia then every single one of them should resign from their jobs and offices including Mayor John Street.[/quote]

This is an interesting point.

Unfortunately the chanse to FIRE THEM occurs every 4 years on election day. Instead the powerful political machine in Philadelphia which has an 80% Democratic voting base fears NOT losing their seats due to any particular outrage by the community.

It is the Black community who is the net loser of the death that is raining down upon them and their children.

THE COST of the Black Community contining along the path that we have been lead down needs to be brought to the forefront and adequate changes to put OUR RACIAL best interests in mind over certain partisan interests.

THE COST of the Black Community contining along the path that we have been lead down needs to be brought to the forefront and adequate changes to put OUR RACIAL best interests in mind over certain partisan interests.

Excellent statement of principle.

What are "OUR RACIAL best interests"?

But I add the first sincere move must come from the police. They have the least to lose.

Allright. So what is that "first sincere move"? If you could dictate that move, how would you do it?

One successful technique they haven't even tried.

With community policing, the police and police department are involved as members of the community. Cities and counties that subscribe to this philosophy tend to do much more community work than traditional police departments. This often includes having more police officers who "walk the beat" as opposed to driving around in police cars. The basic idea is to create bonds of trust and reliance between police and the public.

This approach requires officers to be open minded, unbiased, and sensitive to the concerns and problems of others; also known as the new policing paradigm. Even if officers do not agree with a complainant's viewpoint, they should try to listen and understand the problem. Police should display empathy and compassion with sincerity, not in a rehearsed way. Police must also develop skill in planning, problem solving, organization, interpersonal communications, and perhaps most importantly critical thinking. 

In other words, the police should be doing what the police chief wants 10,000 Black men to do.

One successful technique they haven't even tried.

Philadelphis hasn't tried it? That's surprising.

...80% Democratic voting base fears NOT losing their seats due to any particular outrage by the community...

In Philadelphia and in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania it would not make a dime's worth of difference if the folks in charge were Democrats or Republicans. This is another myth being propogated by those whose candidates and party seem unable to gain any traction with black voters. The Republicans in Pennsylvania are as clueless, corrupt and purblind as the Democrats and have been for more than one hundred years.

If you think I am making this up check out the early short stories or the late career novella "Imagine Kissing Pete" of John O'Hara, who was a Republican and a Pennsylvania native. The current Republican-controlled legislature continually infringes on the rights of the citizens and government of Philadelphia to make their own decisions regarding matters such as carrying concealed weapons; placing and siting of gambling casinos; control of the city's Parking Authority and even its airport. 

Why is the fact that the Philadelphia police has not tried community policing surprising? Are you familiar with the historical relationship between black citizens and the Philadelphia police?

Why is the fact that the Philadelphia police has not tried community policing surprising?

A couple of reasons. 1) Community policing has been implemented in cities of all sizes across the country for many years, including the city where I live. 2) Googling "Philadelphia" and "community policing" produces some contrary results.

The current Republican-controlled legislature continually infringes on the rights of the citizens and government of Philadelphia to make their own decisions regarding matters such as carrying concealed weapons; placing and siting of gambling casinos; control of the city's Parking Authority and even its airport.

someone with first hand knowledge of circumstances on the ground is stating that there are myriad factors outside the bounds of municipal control that would have to be dealt with?

You're recruiting 10,000 Black men to replace the police, while still paying their salaries with your taxes? That's the topic, which you haven't discussed at all. You're impressing me less than Bronze Trinity. At least she addressed the topic.

Bronze Trinity complied with the ad hoc constraints, offered comments, and got disproportionately disrespected for her efforts, hardly the same thing.

The topic heading this thread reads "comments?"

No respect, no restraint, and most conspicuously, no solutions.....,

A couple of reasons. 1) Community policing has been implemented in cities of all sizes across the country for many years, including the city where I live.

likely for reasons outside the control of the municipalities in which it was attempted..., 

Quaker: 

You find anything that shows they did more than just talk about it?

Bronze Trinity complied with the ad hoc constraints, offered comments, and got disproportionately disrespected for her efforts, hardly the same thing.

She your daughter?

She came in and did nothing but try shaming folks. That gets reflected back on EVERYONE.

You're done getting personal yet? You ready to talk about WHY it's a good idea for 10,000 Black folks to do the work they pay taxes to have done? You ready to talk about why Philadelphia should be allowed to abandon its responsibilities...or at least how your assuming their job will get them to do their job?

No respect, no restraint,

...not a lot more interest in what you got to say...you came in talking about "I'll play." And "no restraint" was an up-front promise I made. You can NEVER get restraint...you CAN lose the respect.

and most conspicuously, no solutions.....,

You got one? I suggested community policing.

You SAID you have experience

it's an issue that I do personally engage, on the ground, here at home and on that basis know exactly whereof I speak

Bring your suggestion or stop grandstanding.

...and only deliver a plausible narrative, you're full of shit.

Worse when you don't even bring that.

And yes, Craig, your next insult gets devowelled. 

You find anything that shows they did more than just talk about it?

A little. Would it count as overwheming evidence that the city gave it a serious try? Nah. But there's this, and this.

Look, it's not my purpose to rush to the defense of the Philadelphia police or Chief Johnson. But these same problems play out in other cities too. There's an interplay between the government and the governed that's hard to even define, much less use to any advantage. Don't the people have some responsibility for a peaceful community too?

NEVER....,

Look, there have always been extra civic organizations involved in the maintenance of quality of life in any community. As I mentioned on Bookerrising - the primary users of voice message broadcast for realtime crime watch calling have been NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATIONS.

Neighborhood associations and other incorporated neighborhood governance bodies are virtually non-existant in poor and working class Black communities. However, it is precisely these types of organizations which exert a primary de facto influence on the quality of life in the neighborhoods whose quality of life issues they govern via contractual agreement.

As you may or may not recall, I'm a forthright proponent of what I have called "wagon train charters". The only way to get folks to step up to the fair and uniform control over quality of life aspects of neighborhood governance are mutually and reciprocally binding covenants among the folks who live in the neighborhood.

EVERY low crime, beautified, improving, and forward moving neighborhood I've ever seen has this baseline agreement in place.

Now I guarantee you that the neighborhoods in question in Philly don't have anything even remotely approaching this type of communal charter.

At a minimum, when you get a group of men who have to share a communal responsibility of any sort, organizing around simple delegation of scope, duration, and terms will be sufficient to stimulate the type of presently non-existant interpersonal communion that is grounds for stipulating contractual terms, policies, procedures, etc...., all the organizing elements of a governable (self-governable) collective.

To have that type of a charter emerge from the neighborhoods themselves, as opposed to being imposed from the outside by uncaring and frankly hostile municipal, state, and other authorities - is a baseline benefit. The external impositions in any form they may take will be vastly sub-optimal.

External impositions and non-existant salvatory leadership is the situation on the ground that resulted in the FUBAR'd state of affairs that prevails today.

Don't the people have some responsibility for a peaceful community too?

Of course they do, and in neighborhoods where they execute those repsonsibilities there are simple and pervasive governance mechanisms under which they do so.

I'm always and everywhere architecting around maximum advantage post seismic shift

Post-Soviet Lessons for a Post-American Century (Dmitry Orlov)

unlike Cobb, the notion of municipal sponsorship of the formation and provisioning of citizen militias sends pleasant chills running up and down my spine...., 

Don't the people have some responsibility for a peaceful community too?

Of course they do. But don't the cops? The mayor?

the notion of municipal sponsorship of the formation and provisioning of citizen militias sends pleasant chills running up and down my spine....,

That's not what Philly's top cop is suggesting. Period. No one is to be armed. They are to get the conflict resolution training the cops are supposed to get.

No one is saying people shouldn't get together and protect their neighborhood. I am saying this call for 10,000 Black men to take the blame for the problem and full responsibility for the solution is a non starter.

At a minimum, when you get a group of men who have to share a communal responsibility of any sort, organizing around simple delegation of scope, duration, and terms will be sufficient to stimulate the type of presently non-existant interpersonal communion that is grounds for stipulating contractual terms, policies, procedures, etc...., all the organizing elements of a governable (self-governable) collective.

To have that type of a charter emerge from the neighborhoods themselves, as opposed to being imposed from the outside by uncaring and frankly hostile municipal, state, and other authorities - is a baseline benefit. The external impositions in any form they may take will be vastly sub-optimal.

External impositions and non-existant salvatory leadership is the situation on the ground that resulted in the FUBAR'd state of affairs that prevails today.

Now see? I thought I said that. Now I don't know anything at all about Chief Johnson. Maybe I give him too much credit to suggest that he's pressing a plan that takes advantage of the communal structures Mr. Cnulan describes. But P6, you go to the other extreme, accusing the Chief of throwing up his hands and turning his back on his duties.

Now I don't know anything at all about Chief Johnson. Maybe I give him too much credit to suggest that he's pressing a plan that takes advantage of the communal structures Mr. Cnulan describes.

Yes, you are.

Go back and read what ptcruiser wrote. The abandonment of the Black community began long ago.

If You Lived In Philadelphia...

I haven't gone to any extreme. I'm just saying what happened.

The Time has come. The Army is readying. The War is on. We need to launch a Petraeus-like surge of tens of thousands of Black men into each one of our neighbourhoods and put every gangsta parasite to flight. If the Sunni sheikhs can drive Al-Qaeda out of Anbar we can certainly sweep every Negro hoodlum off each street corner and out of every alleyway in our cities. Not only should we now encourage whistle-blowers to smoke out all the criminals who lurk in our midst but we should establish a Gestapo-like Black Mukhabarat that will develop precise intelligence on each and every crack-dealing & gun-slinging thug on our territory and then launch an Arrowhead Ripper-style blitzkrieg that will scorch the earth and lay waste to every one of these pant-sagging baboons with their “snitches get stitches” stupidities.

Crack?

Cripes, where you been the last ten years? Obviously not in any Black community…

Anyway, good luck with turning your stirring rhetoric in reality.

Hey guys. I thought I'd stop lurking and drop by to comment in this thread.

Here is what I posted over at Cobb:

http://cobb.typepad.com/cobb/2007/09/sylvesters-blac.html#comment-83055769

Well, since we're cross posting...

DarkStar, 10,000 men is NOT a community watch. That’s a difference in kind, not a difference in degree. You need a vastly difference “c and c” system for 10,000 people than even 100 people.

They’re going to TRAIN 10,000 men? Effectively? How long will that take? How much will that COST?

This is a failure on purely practical grounds.

There's all manner of problems with PCP's idea (PCP = Philadelphia Chief of Police).

Around 4:30 this afternoon while sitting at the kitchen table my nine-year old (I married late; we should all marry late.) who is in the fourth grade handed me a copy of the school newsletter that is jointly produced by his school and its PTO chapter. It is a well produced document that reflects well on the school and the community it serves. Among the things I discovered, for example, is that my son's teacher who is new to the district was born and raised in this community and is a graduate of the same elementary school where she now teaches.

I also learned that my son's school is conducting a school supply drive for Kenderton Elementary School in North Philadelphia. When I read the announcement and began scanning the list of school supplies being requested on behalf of the children at Kenderton I became angry. I became angry because it was clear to me that the children at Kenderton and probably every public school in Philadelphia are being deprived of a quality education because of the utter incompetence of the city's leaders and public institutions.

As a way to illustrate my point I am going to list the items needed by the children at Kenderton:

Kindergarten --- Crayons

Ist Grade --- Writing and Drawing Pencils

2nd Grade --- Washable Markers, Broad Tip Markers, Black Fine Tip Markers

3rd Grade --- Round Tip Scissors, Metal Rulers

4th Grade --- Construction Paper, White Drawing Paper

5th Grade --- K-8 Workbooks, Pencil Sharpeners

ALL GRADES: New or Gently Used Books

SPECIAL REQUESTS: Backpacks, Dry Erase Markers, Electric Pencil Sharpeners, Aprons for Art Room, PC software w/educational content, New Or Gently Used Computer Printers

Several weeks ago the Philadelphia School District gave a severance package that was the equivalent of two years salary and medical benefits to the departing chief financial officer of the district. This person had been employed less than two years by the district and had been out on maternity leave for six months. On her watch the district ended its 2005-2006 fiscal year with a deficit of $24 million and was facing a $192 million shortfall for its 2007-2008 fiscal year. In addition, the alleged hotshot former administrator of the district who has now been hired to turnaround the schools in New Orleans was given a severance package that was worth more than $350,000 despite the fact the Philadelphia schools were facing record budget deficits.

Philly needs 10,000 black men alright. It needs 10,000 black men to march on City Hall and drive out the entire lot of these folks and the horses they all rode into City Hall on. Forget about policing the streets. Police the city's bureaucrats and all of its elected and appointed offiicials. They are the real criminals.

And, yes, our family will make a donation to help the children at Kenderton Elementary School because, well, just because they need all the help and love they can get. 

If the 'black community' wanted to beat the black crime problem, then have 1000 black men show up at police HQ trying to get a job every day for a week. That would get nationwide press. That would prove everything.

Then the city of Philadelphia would be stuck with a very stark and clear picture, a community that wants change, and is willing to work for it, and a system that can't come up with the dollars.

If I may bypass some of the rhetoric, I like that idea.

Are they all going to buy walkie talkies? Publish a newsletter? Get a dispatcher. Volunteer automobiles? Have status meetings? I'm not saying that they can't, nor am I against the results they are trying to establish. But that's what the goddamned police are for! They've already got the infrastructure, funding, management, public support and pension plan in place? Why do black people have to reinvent the wheel? They're already paying the taxes.

And that's just reality.