Prometheus 6

I never could figure out what Steinem thought her point was when you talked about suffrage/the vote.  The first thing I thought about was the voting rights acts that had to be enacted to protect Black people's right to vote.

I wonder if Steinem is aware of any (significant) periods where a woman's right to vote w compromised or suspended.

I think back to the allegations during the 06 election in which the racist Harold Ford ads were seen as a way of dividing African American voters by gender.  There was a thorough discussion of this issue on this site.  It looks like it might be harder for the Clinton campaign to drive a wedge between men and women in the African American community with their repeated attempts to play the "women card" when their concepts of womanhood are almost exclusively white.  I would be interested to hear what others have to say about this.  Could the Clintons win the black vote by dividing black voters by gender?     

the gender dynamic usually works in reverse in black communities. we support mike tyson over the black woman he raped because he's a man. we support clarence thomas over anita hill because he's a man. if clinton were a man and obama a woman it'd be a great deal easier.

the ford ads weren't support to work on black voters. they were supposed to work on white voters (and they did...among the sliver of independents that ended up going for ford's challenger in the wake of the ad). 

we support mike tyson over the black woman he raped because he's a man. we support clarence thomas over anita hill because he's a man.

A challenge to my "blackness"?

A challenge to my "blackness"?

No.  That Tyson/Thomas thing is an insult to it.  The whole defining Blackness down thing is an insult.  Might as well let comics on BET suffice as social critics and the definers of what "black(ness)" is. 

That's why the quote marks.

"The fallacy of Division is committed when a person infers that what is true of a whole must also be true of its constituents and justification for that inference is not provided."

 he didn't say u, p6, supported tyson.  he said "black people".   doesn't disprove his assertion just cuz you don't agree.  

nquest, if you can point to a group of people and say "those are black people", then aren't you defining blackness?  are you saying you can't identify black people unless those black people agree with you?

yeah, i'm feisty today. get at me. 

 he didn't say u, p6, supported tyson.  he said "black people".   doesn't disprove his assertion just cuz you don't agree. 

That's why the smiley face. 

are you saying you can't identify black people unless those black people agree with you?

Feisty? Whoever came up with this "because they don't agree with you" argument... Me, I'd beat the living day and night lights out of them because that's another instance of Defining Blackness Down. Anyone who can't come up with a more intelligent argument than that needs their azz kicked just on GP.

What I don't agree with is Defining Blackness Down - i.e. saying the worst about Black people as if it is representative and definitive of Black people. Your comments to me then are just not intelligent or intelligible.

nquest, if you can point to a group of people and say "those are black people"

Feisty? Don't you ever "IF" me. "IF" means you know you haven't heard it from me and you know I haven't pointed to a group of people and said "those are black people." Instead, you have to create that for your own convenience.

My point is that I resist someone pointing to the worst about Black people and saying "those are black people" because I both know that they are not representative and definitive and I know there are a range of different Black people. It's a position where I'm no respector of Black people in the way you want to frame the issue as if I have/would choose my own preferred group and say, "those are black people" vs. the group pointed out, again, as if they are representative and definitive.

And don't you ever "are you saying" me either.  It shows lack of logic on your part.  I routinely identify Black people who don't agree with me.  I identify self-loathing mf's all the time because I can't stand them.  I identify Black people with racist attitudes, etc. all the time because I can't stand that sh*t either.  I acknowledge that they all exist.  Been done that and, again, do it routinely.  Indeed, I've identified all kinds of Black people and all the different views Black people have on Obama's candidacy/presidency especially those I don't agree with.

Now quote the fallacy of logic that applies to your unwarranted and unfounded assumptions here.