Two voices from my generation...Names4Things in the comments
Jeremiah Wright is not helping this situation. He is, however, helping himself to massive amounts of nutjob, that make this type of gross inequity acceptable to a whole lot of people. I am a detractor of Jeremiah Wright, but only because he's done nothing on his press tour that addresses why he is serially betraying a man who refused to throw him under the bus.
and on her site, and an old friend from the Critical Issues in Pan-African Life and Culture mailing list.
I have known and followed Dr. Wright for more years than Barack Obama has known him. He certainly has inspired me more than Obama on more than one level. And I am not much for " first" worship.
And, I am now 58 yrs old and I still believe that our generation failed the next. We didn't even hold on to breakfast and Black history programs. We gave way to and fettered them off to government. And we see where that went.
Yes, Obama would have been a better President than Clinton (Bill) on welfare reform, on Rwanda, than GWB at Katrina and Iraq. But I could say the same about Hillary or Edwards. Would that equate to a better Congress, more progressive state and local programs ?? But there will never be a more profound and truth-telling voice in the spirit in my time, with dignity and certainty than Jeremiah Wright. I find it easier to give up Barack than Wright. And I am not so sure that this is the choice before me.
I had to answer her.
It's not your only choice.
Look at the role Wright plays in your life and you'll see it not only does not coincide with Obama's role, the two barely overlap.
To me, the value of his campaign is in the head games that commenced as soon as he announced. It will allow a challenge to the Southernization of national politics. Due to the absolute fucked-upness of the last 8 years, his chances of winning this election this time are better than they'd be after a Democratic administration.
Obama's candidacy (or one just like it), unfolding exactly as it is, was inevitable. Sooner or later some Black man would feel he really become President (Black and female is probably too big a burden for the most competent of sisters to overcome), and the racialist campaign against him will begin. Only I actually didn't expect it to happen during the primaries...hindsight and all that...
Hillary's campaign at this point is, "Nominate me because white people are too racist to elect a Black man and can be shamed into voting for a white woman." She may be right...and I will be forever grateful to her for providing a series of physical facts proving or disproving it.
Rev. Wright has done no more than Geraldine Ferraro did when she was accused of racism...deny and repeat. And I've never forgotten Obama's promise not to be the Senator from Black America. But the further Obama gets, the more he erodes the value of the Southern Strategy, and that seriously works for me. So I see no contradiction in validating the the work of UCC Chicago, physical facts Rev. Wright's sermons (though you got to go for yourself on the faith-based stuff), Rev. Wright's right to defend himself, the good work he himself has done, and supporting an Obama candidacy.
I forget now...did Mrs. Clinton ever repudiate Ferraro?
Sorry, I had to go there a bit.
Given my perception of this election as collective psychodrama, I got no beef with folks who can't hang with Rev. Wright over his tactical errors. Anyway, the whole beef is the result of the media being a passive conduit of whatever any campaign wants to say (I'm looking at YOU, Politico.com, just as much as Drudge). And some of the more responsible among them may well recognize they could go down in history as shepherds to the moral collapse of our politics and government. Watch the media:
“I want to use this press conference to make people absolutely clear that obviously whatever relationship I had with Reverend Wright has changed as a consequence of this,” he said, adding that if Mr. Wright speaks out again, he will not represent the Obama campaign.
It was the most forthright repudiation of an out-of-control supporter that we can remember. We would like to say that it will finally take the racial charge out of this campaign. We’re not that naïve.
It is an injustice, a legacy of the racist threads of this nation’s history, but prominent African-Americans are regularly called upon to explain or repudiate what other black Americans have to say, while white public figures are rarely, if ever, handed that burden.
I. LOVE. That. Last. Paragraph. I had despaired of ever seeing it acknowleged in the mainstream media by anyone but the Black news desk. More, racism was given more than passing acknowledgement as a shaping force on the campaign, on both Meet the Press and ThisWeek's roundtable discussions this past weekend.
I can't help but feel there's an opening here. I can't help but be a little nervous when I see just who is in a position to pass through it, but when all is said and done, a considerable amount of crap can be precipitated from the conceptual atmosphere here. I can't guarantee you'll like what this new clarity lets you see, is all.
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So we can either go
So we can either go post-Southern Strategy or neo-Southern Strategy. But won't an Obama win entail a recalibration of racist attitudes that will allow these attitudes to prosper within a new paradigm? Won't a neo-Southern Strategy be just as dangerous because it will be even more covert than the vintage Southern Strategy? I think the Clinton's will provide the link between Southern Strategy and neo-Southern Strategy based on their current campaign tactics. Even if Obama wins a stay in the White House, they will have pioneered methods that can be perfected in the future. The Goldwater campaign in 64 lost the first battle, but it eventually won the war. I believe that a post-Southern Strategy and a neo-Southern Strategy will co-exist side by side and will at times be one in the same.
As for the new clarity you speak of, I don't think a lot of people are able to discern it at this point in the game. I guess you would have to compare racial perceptions of race and the Obama campaign in 2007 with what has taken place since Iowa. I can recall the perception of reality that existed last year, but I have a hard time making sense of it in terms of what has taken place this year. People can ignore the Jena 6 (and they will commence to ignore what happened in the Sean Bell case), but a presidential election is too massive to ignore. They will remain focused on the changes taking place near the center of power but will be slow to comprehend what these changes will portend for what goes on near the fringes or in their everyday lives. A lot of white people would like to see the destruction of white privilege as it applies to Bush and Cheney but won't be so willing to acquiesce to these changes as they apply to them.
I do have a thing with ministerial betrayal...
My thing with ministerial betrayal is by no means limited to Wright or black people. But I did see a poignant significance in Wright being a genuine father figure to Obama, in addition to being his minister. Wright's dismissal of Obama as being 'just a politician doing what politicians do', did not recgnize that Obama had refused to repudiate him. I saw that as a seminal moment for black people in this country, who are relentlessly demanded to 'repudiate' other black people, whom whites find objectionable. Obama did not. His current rejection of Wright was not of the black church, as Wright claimed; but a valid statement in defense of himself.
The Nazi pope that just came through, is proof that whites will never be held to that profoundly demeaning standard. And that bastard even went to a synagogue. Since so many Jewish activists have been in the forefront of demanding 'repudiation' from public black people; I found the absence of any demands for repudiation from pope Ratzberger as particularly galling. I also understand that it would have been impolitic for Jews to have done so. I personally would have gone for the kamikaze move, but then, you know that about me P6.
You mention that a black woman just doesn't have a shot, like Obama may or may not have. I agree. A black woman's failure would not look anything like Obama's may shake out to be, but one in collusion with the black church and black culture in general. You know how black womanhate burns me, P6! So when Sharpton did it with Dunbar Village, the outcry came primarily from the sistren. It shouldn't be this way. I want more Derrick Bells, who quit his professorship at Harvard, rather than continue working there without a black woman on the tenured faculty. I want way fewer Jeremiah Wrights, whose egomania and gross materialism is more common than not. I don't think he's wrong about most of what he said. Where he was wrong, however, he was plain seditious. And I don't mean to the usa, I mean to we black people here.
But won't an Obama win
Right now we have open acceptance of the Southern Strategy in politcal campaigning. That's going to be the case until it stops winning.
Clarity, my friend, involves seeing things as they are, not seeing what should be. Removing filters, not just exchanging them.
Like I said, I can't guarantee anyone will like what they see.
I want more Derrick Bells,
Bell is a challenge to live up to when you're trying to reach (or maintain your grasp on) upper class status and do racial uploft. When you can make progress, do you give one step to your people and keep one for yourself, give both steps away or keep both?
The thing for me is...the THREE EVENTS
I believe that the Moyers interview was real, true and authentic Wright.
I believe that the NAACP Speech was real, true and authentic Wright.
He clowned during that Q&A. He showed his ass. Why are folks not willing to admit that? I don't even want to get into any of the ' is it the truth?' mess. You and I both know it's HOW you present your point that matters as much as what you say. If he couldn't do any better, that would be one thing. But, we had two examples of him 'doing better' and 'being authentic' for me not to believe that the NPC event was a purposeful attack on Obama.
Every question he got, he could have answered a different way that wasn't inauthentic. Take the patriotism question..instead of his smartass ' How long did Dick Cheney serve?' answer, what he could have said was:
I sat in front of the tv, with my family, watching John Kennedy's inaugural speech. The President spoke to me and I took his call to service to heart. So much so that I LEFT COLLEGE, with one semester to go, and ENLISTED IN THE MARINES. I served X tours of duty, between 2 Different Branches of the Armed Services. Dick Cheney, on the other hand, gets FIVE deferrments, and I'M the one whose patriotism is questioned? Please explain that to me.
Now, you tell me, which one is better? Both 'flipped it back' to the audience, but one is like, ' up yours' and the other one challenges you to think.
The entire Q&A was like that.
He clowned during that Q&A.
I'm sorry, I haven't gotten out today. Someone is denying his intent at the NPC was to clown folks?
Interesting.
Darkstar is on that same mailing list...he says this is the first volley in open old v, new guard internecine strife.
I actually wouldn't mind if we developed a political Swahili (lingua franca for the Euros) but everyone would have to abide by it. Equal time on everyone's associates or drop the whole issue.
P6, yes, folks have argued with me about him clowning
Giving the ' well, he told the truth, didn't he?' reply.
There are politicians, and ' activists', that I know could never have done better than the clowning session at The NPC, because that's the core of who they are.
That's not who Dr. Wright is. Period.
IF he had clowned on Moyers. IF he had clowned at the NAACP Dinner. Then The NPC would have been 'more of the same'.
By showing that he didn't need to sacrifice his authenticity in his presentations on Moyers and the NAACP dinner...it became obvious.....they were just to lull Obama into a false sense of security, cause he had that planned at The NPC all along.
AND...he did it in collusion with HILLPATINE
supporter Barbara Reynolds.
Yeah, I went THERE.
Derrick Bell v. Jeremiah Wright
Derrick Bell is a true martyr, and I am an unabashed admirer. That said, I don't expect martyrdom from anyone, because it's too much to ask. When it's offered, as Bell has done again and again; I appreciate it. By the way, I disagree with the notion that Bell is someone who tried to maintain upper class status. He did the opposite, in my opinion, and did it not just at Harvard, but in countless other situations throughout his life. He wasn't born on third base like Jeremiah Wright -- he actually hit several home runs. It's perhaps no coincidence that Barack Obama was one of his students. So, let's use some of Bell's words: "Your faith in what you believe must be a living, working faith that draws you away from comfort and security, and toward risk through confrontation."
Jeremiah Wright would have us believe that he lives by a similar credo. Yet he has done his confronting from a place of security, by literally preaching to the choir. When his confrontations landed outside that comfort zone, he claimed martyrdom for himself ("I have been crucified..."). By all accounts, he is a very intelligent man. He must know then, that he was the cudgel being used against Obama, and not the locus of the beating itself.
What did he do then? He denigrated Obama, knowing that Obama had repeatedly refused to denounce him. He dismissed him as just 'another politician', when in this specific case, Obama was anything but that. I saw cowardice and dissembling in Wright then, and I saw a massive undeserved ego. When I saw the million dollar+ crib that his parishioners are buying for him, I saw greed. When I saw him clowning at the National Press Club, I saw a hypocritical narcisist, embarrassing his parishioners, and those of us who agreed with many of his contentions.
Racial uplift is something we should all be concerned with, personally and publicly. But when it happens, it will be because black women have attained equal standing with black men. Black women get that strong black woman directive that primarily serves to subjugate us to everyone and everything-- even to where our defamations are entertainment for disaffected youth. In the end, we all get to dysfunction under an arcane and misogynistic structure that fails to support any of us.
That's why Jeremiah Wright was believed by some, when he declared that The Black Church was under attack, even though he was lying. It was his ill-considered pronouncements that were being attacked, solely to bring down a charismatic who actually has a chance at running the corporation. He's playing himself if he thinks his ideas are either novel or threatening to the status quo.
Sorry to go on so long, but in answer to your question, we make progress together. We can keep both, if we're willing to jettison the bullshit that keeps us in single file.
From a Distance
I am only just now watching the National Press Club event - and he has just concluded his prepared statement. I can only imagine that the "clowning" is forthcoming and it must be fairly substantial.
With respect to the $1M home, I can't comment on that because it doesn't seem like a big deal. A million dollar home is not anything like it used to be? I don't know what the paper will say about the home or its eventual disposition upon the death of the reverend. I don't know to what purposes it will be used.
Okay...the show started in the 33 minute mark...
Rikyrah - I am sure you're comments are on point -- but I am wondering about one simple thing...
Is it even remotely possible that you would fall out with a close associate, friend or mentee over something as simple as white folks predictable attack on US? Seriously? I doubt it.
I suspect that in many respects Rev. Wright has actually done him a favor by escalating his commentary -- and creating an opportunity for candidate BHO to actually PASS the repudiation test. Thoughts?
"King and chief probably had a big beef;
'Cause of that now I grit my teeth." - Chuck D.
From a Distance II
It's interesting to note the many references he's made to comments being edited out of his conversation with Bill Moyers.
"King and chief probably had a big beef;
'Cause of that now I grit my teeth." - Chuck D.
From a Distance III
48 minutes in and it's been mostly solid. There was certainly a bit of "clowning" but I'd say it was modest (so far) and simply reflective of that call and response dynamic that he shared with the audience.
I also think it bears stating that some of these questions are so absurd, disrespectful and ridiculous that I am not at all surprised he struck that tone with the press. All in al (at 55 minute mark), I can't say I've seen anything all that objectionable. Still 2 minutes to go. Chris Rock joke...hmmm.
Okay he sat down. I'm not mad at him...I'd like to hear more if anyone has more about why he should not accept a $1M home and what the implications of the gift are for his family and that community. Does the gift adversely impact the financial standing of the church? Is this a widely divergent practice? Does the gift effectively allow the church to make an intergenerational wealth transfer that will accrue long-term benefits to the church? In the absence of answers to those questions, it would be premature to form an opinion on the gift. From where I'm sitting (at a distance), it's not the least bit unseemly.
"King and chief probably had a big beef;
'Cause of that now I grit my teeth." - Chuck D.
Thanks
I don't have much to add, except that I really loved P6's original post. I was pretty depressed yesterday listening to the radio and reading the comment thread at Kevin Drum's "Political Animal" blog. What I saw THERE was a bunch of soi-disant liberals (White, AFAIK) getting the vapors over Obama's "poor judgment" at listening to a dissenting voice. It's sort of like this:
__________________________________________________
*I am aware of the fact that the US government did use slave labor to build several major buildings, such as the Capitol, and presumably the state governments did as well. But obviously, the government was never a major slave owner.
Continued
I also think it bears
Those are the comments that blew up.
Even if what Jeremiah Wright
I like that one...
Part III
(Continued from above)
Damn that's good!! eom.
"King and chief probably had a big beef;
'Cause of that now I grit my teeth." - Chuck D.
P6 That's just it.... are
P6
That's just it.... are the filters being removed or replaced?
ubstu34: Good question. Most
ubstu34:
Good question.
Most folks are doing neither at this point. They are, at best, looking at something different with the same filters. For my part, when I try to discredit one of those filters, I offer nothing to replace it.
Totally apart from that, Hillary has spewed so much crap in the air, it's more than can be supported by the medium. From Black folks' perspective, it's separating out like cream from whey.
An awesome quote...
"Your faith in what you believe must be a living, working faith that draws you away from comfort and security, and toward risk through confrontation."