I was talking to this guy over at In These Times. He says we shouldn't have "Black", "Negro" or any of the terms in between in the names of our social organizations and institutions because it widens the "Race Chasm," and we shouldn't ask anything of the government.
[ You say, “Black people have only ever tried to close that divide.”]
This is too sweeping a statement. No group is ever unanimous in its beliefs or behavior.
They differed in technique but not intent. See, everyone wants a better life.
Now, keeping in mind that understanding isn’t agreement...do you recognize the government caused damage to Black people by its decisions and actions? And if so, do you think the government should take steps to undo the damage it caused?
I will tell you every Black Democrat and most Black Republicans will answer the first question “yes.” Can you understand why? And every Black Democrat will also say “yes” to the second question...even though many don’t believe it will ever actually happen. Can you understand why?
How do you reverse exclusion by a given quality other than by inclusion by that same quality? You really can’t. At this point insisting on “colorblindness” strikes me like forcing cops to obey the speed limit when chasing speeders.
Now. Like I said, everyone want a better life. We have been damaged by Jim Crow, redlining and all that. And the government won’t do anything about it because even it discomfits the most liberal of white people. So who is left to do this work? Us.
And if you tell us our having organizations dedicated to our own uplift under these circumstances bothers you, you’re saying no one should do anything about it, not even us.
Before I go further, can you suggest another interpretation than that the suggestion that Black people should have no organizations dedicated to undo the damage we’ve absorbed, when the government does nothing due to popular opinion, is tantamount to saying we’re stuck where we are, and should be?
I still don't understand why people think they can say any random thing and call it an answer. He never answed the question; he just kept telling me how we should act in order not to disturb him, which is:
This IS my answer:
• Do whatever you want to do to help black people.
• Do it without the label “BLACK.”
• Do not push for government programs like Affirmative Action quotas.
Is it actually possible for a person to NOT realize his answer has nothing to do with my question? Or is it that my question has nothing to do with what he wants to say?
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DuBois Said It
"Race" is the one topic where everyone feels they have some measure of expertise - and that they have equal standing with folks like those of us who've studied/worked at this for quite some time. Among white folks, they certainly have that standing - but if you were in my circle talking that bullshit, I'll have to treat you like the child you are.
You do realize that the chasm between your respective knowledge bases is insurmountable without some serious humility on the part of your knowitall-knownothing debater?!?!
"King and chief probably had a big beef; 'Cause of that now I grit my teeth." - Chuck D.
Yup. Just like I know I
Yup. Just like I know I won't be seeing any humility from him.
My daughter just asked me why people have a hard time learning stuff when all you have to do is study. I told her it's because they are trying to fit the new knowledge into the information base they're already working with, and that base is wrong.
there's always a mixture of enjoyment and frustration
there's always a mixture of enjoyment and frustration reading these exchanges you have with the willfully clueless. I particularly liked this one...
... in response to the old "Whut if we called it White [fill-in-the-blank]?? Wouldn't that be WRONG??" Yet still, they seem not to hear the answers we give them... and a few months later, asked the same old questions again.
Apropos Pdub's
Apropos Pdub's comment:
"There is nothing in the world so dangerous as sleepwalkers."
How I Handle white folks who think they have standing
I quote the numerous studies and research detailing their lack of knowledge, their misunderstanding, and sometimes willfull denial of racism, and tell them unless they're willing to let go of their "whiteness" and not respond defensively, they got nothing to say.
When I don't do that, I just keep stating facts until they quit.
I'm sorry to be so harsh, but I'm tired of people defending the Geraldine Ferrarros and claiming they're not racist.
“colorblindness”