Prometheus 6

These white boys just crack me up. I wonder if Krugman writes for his benefit or others.

Growing up black, many of our parents tell us we have to be twice a good at things to be picked for jobs. We can't ramble on about nothing during interviews or ddepend on a family name or white uncle already in the system.

I hope at this point white americans can see this for what it's worth. The candidate that is obviously better in EVERY category being stunted and slowed like a governor on a school bus. Who in there right mind thinks that anything in the many years in the Senate has made McCain any more experienced in the foreign policy department than BO. It comes down to common sense and ability to learn and adapt. None of which McCain seems to be able to do.
I've seen every pundit and so called expert take their turn in kicking Obama in the balls...for what reason I don't know. I want all of you to take that snap shot of the mean little boys and girls in the schoolyard that took their turn to punch or kick in this fight...even the ones SUPPOSEDLY on his side. And remember who THEY are. They will become the sychophants none of us can trust. They are passive aggressive racists.

You must be joking. More like 40%. There are a lot of them that say they might, but when it comes down to it, they just can't vote for a ni**er!

"....but when it comes down to it, they just can't vote for a ni**er!"

Aman!

The 15-20% estimate comes from the most respected mainstream polling organizations. I don't have to argue about the numbers and they're still shocking (like people who knew they didn't like negroes were still shocked to see them get hosed down and such).

The "15-20% of voters that won't vote for a Black person under any circumstances" sums up Mr. Obama's "failure" to achieve the proper standings in the polls. But it isn't Mr. Obama's failure, it's white America's failure.

I think it is obvious the white media is setting itself and white America up to be able to say that Obama, if he loses, lost because he just couldn’t connect to “working class whites” on the level that “working class whites” can identify, not his race.

But it isn't Mr. Obama's failure, it's white America's failure.

Exactly.

They can say what they want, but black folks know better.

Re 15-20% of voters who won't vote for a black candidate, maybe you could provide a link? And check out The Daily Howler re this type of argument that was presented by Charles Blow. Arguing that Obama's lead isn't as big as it "should" be is due to racism is convenient and maybe true, but at this point is very speculative (i.e., how many of those 15 to 20% you cite are Republicans and wouldn't vote for Obama or a Democrat of any color?)

. . . or as the GOP calls them, "our base."

Seriously, would someone tell me why we think any Democrat would have a shot with these 'holes?

Re 15-20% of voters who won't vote for a black candidate, maybe you could provide a link?

A measure of racism: 15 percent?
By: Roger Simon
April 22, 2008 07:45 AM EST

The Republican shook his head. “You’re missing the most important one,” he said. “Race. McCain runs against Barack Obama and the race vote is worth maybe 15 percent to McCain.”

The man I was talking to is not a racist; he was just stating what he believes to be a fact: There is a percentage of the American electorate who will simply not vote for a black person no matter what his qualities or qualifications.

How big is that percentage? An AP-Yahoo poll conducted April 2-14 found that “about 8 percent of whites would be uncomfortable voting for a black for president.”

I don’t know if 8 percent sounds high or low to you, but I was amazed that 8 percent of respondents were willing to admit this to a pollster. And I figure that the true figure is much higher.

The same poll, by the way, found that 15 percent of voters think Obama is a Muslim.

Then there's the graphic accompanying Poll Finds Obama Isn’t Closing Divide on Race that shows. And we pulled a lot of stuff together for discussion here. Basically, you get documented, I ain't voting for a Black guy answers from 8% (with a margin of error of 5%), and 29% of DEMOCRATS having high racial resentment scores means I am real comfortable with the 15% figure.

check out The Daily Howler re this type of argument

Got to leave a link...

Seriously, would someone tell me why we think any Democrat would have a shot with these 'holes?

I don't know and I wish they'd stop trying. Pretty soon, everything won't live or die based on white people's illconceived opinions.

And also, polls show Obama's massive lead with every demographic exception white Americans, especially the older ones. And, of course, that's because they're focused on issues.

I don't know what Hillary offered the NY Times and certain of its commentators, but it must have been sweet. The paper was (is?) slavishly devoted to her, and has made that plain. Paul Krugman though, threw away his credibility, his reputation for clear thinking and his aura of decency by stooping to name calling and other childish tactics against Obama. And to think I nearly bought his latest book -- it won't happen now.

www.dailyhowler.com

Sorry for the oversight.

Your response begs the question. The 15% you cite doesn't differentiate between Republicans who aren't going to vote for Obama in any event and democrats who likely vote democratic, but won't because of Obama's color. So I'm not sure what you mean when you say that you're comfortable with the 15% figure. Do you mean that 15% of white democrats won't vote for Obama because he's african-american? That a total of 15% of the electorate won't? That 15% of democratic voters won't? That 15% of white republicans won't? A combination of all the above? In my opinion, that 15% figure is useless to the question of why isn't Obama thrashing McCain in the polls (which was the point Krugman was making, at least at lleast with respect to economic issues) without the further question of whether said voters would have been likely to vote for a white democratic candidate.

The fact (if the polls are to be believed) that 29% of white democrats harbor racial resentments without more doesn't prove much of anything at least with respect to what candidate those folks will vote for. From one of the links you provide, the author states that " Mr. Obama draws significant support among white Democrats. Yet still, among just Democrats, blacks were more apt than whites in the poll to express positive views of Mr. Obama across a range of questions. For example, black Democrats were 24 points more likely than white Democrats to have a favorable opinion of Mr. Obama." Does that translate to those folks that make up the 24% (or the 29% you cite) not voting for Obama? It's possible, but without more one can't say. Maybe they don't have a favorable opinion of him, but will vote for him anyway because he's a democrat and they can't stand the thought of McCain as president. Further, does that prove those democrats in that 24% are prejudiced? Maybe not. Maybe those that make up that number don't like his FISA stance or whatever (i.e., maybe it is issue related). The figures cited don't go far enough to make those kinds of judgements. You and the others who believe that those close polls between Obama and McCain are due to whites who won't vote for a black man (or more particularly white democrats) may very well be right. But this figure (15% of voters won't vote for a black man) and the data presented don't show that.

But really, check out the Daily Howler (www.dailyhowler.com) scan down the page of today's (8/18) post for his discussion. You may not agree, but it is food for thought.

That a total of 15% of the electorate won't?

That's it.

Somersby's argument is basically that Charles Blow's op-ed is all suggestion and no substance. Okay.

In my opinion, that 15% figure is useless to the question of why isn't Obama thrashing McCain in the polls (which was the point Krugman was making, at least at least with respect to economic issues) without the further question of whether said voters would have been likely to vote for a white democratic candidate.

The polls in which Obama is not thrashing McCain aren't economic. They are electoral, political. 

I didn't link Blow's article above and you didn't find what I did link convincing. Maybe this one is better for you.

Senator Obama's support is weakest among whites, particularly older white voters. A Gallup poll yesterday showed Senator McCain leading Senator Obama 55:35 among white males, and their support tied among white females.

"We know that older people in this country are not as progressive about race as young people. It's an issue of how people were raised and the fact that folks over 50 were raised in a very different world," Professor Gimpel said.

To what degree might race be an issue? Of those polled by CBS earlier this year, 6% said they personally would not vote for a black president.

But sometimes people are reluctant to reveal themselves. When asked about "most people they knew", it emerged that 21% — not themselves, of course — would refuse to vote for a black president.

 

Is it just me or does this feel like a parallel universe with regard to the Rick Warren "Christian" forum. Whether McCain was listening to Obama's answers or not, he clearly came in and rattled off talking points, didn't answer questions, (especially when it came to a number about taxes) and spent the rest of the time telling war stories, and trying to make people laugh. Rick Warren (the man is a refined-White Supremacist) didn't ask the exact same questions of McCain as he said he would, cut off Mr. Obama several times, and basically did the best he could to put traditional wedge issues to the forefront. Three points: 1. Obama clearly did better. 2. Abortion is about preserving White Supremacy, period. 3. Undecided voters are McCain voters.

I absolutely agree with you, Sall. On all points.

Thanks nok1kstate, I'm gonna drive myself crazy if I can't have a place to come and express myself.

I have to wonder what the hell kind of Black woman did Krugman marry? I said some time ago, no man married to me would be allowed to stay in my house writing the mess that he's been writing. WHY isn't Obama dominating?

He's BLACK, you fool.

To answer you, P6.

HE'S BLACK, MY BROTHER.

Obama grew up in a single parent household. He was the ' Scholarship kid' at a private school. Calling his grandparents middle-class is generous.

If he was Barry Johnson raised by his grandparents - they wouldn't be called middle class.

Obama got to move to a freestanding house because he wrote a book - period. Before then, there were 4 folks living in a 2 bed, 1 bath condo, paying more for student loans than mortgage.

It's patently absurd that Senator, " I only got into Annapolis because my Daddy and Granddaddy were Admirals, and showed my appreciation by graduating FIFTH from the bottom"

Senator " I dumped my disabled wife for the sweet, hot, rich young thing"

Senator " 10 homes, and so many we can forget to pay taxed on one for years"

And, they try to paint Obama as an ' elitist'.
Now, I know that's nothing but code for Uppity N#($er, but it's absurd.

IF Obama were WHITE, this would be so over, it would be laughable.

Krugman knows this, so don't ask dumb ass questions like this.

Thanks to all who commented in this stream for reminding me what's good about America, and thanks for all the commentators of color for reminding me what I like about American Blacks.

For all those that who don't understand why Obama isn't leading big they need look no further than this blog...

Obama's capabilities as a politician. Quite simply, he's the most talented one since Reagan. I hated Reagan with a passion, not disliked, but hated. But, one must recognize skill when one sees it, and he had skill.

Obama has that skill level. It's not something you learn. You either have it, or you don't, and he has it.

WE ALL KNEW - Black folks that is - that the one thing he would have to get over if to be elected was BEING BLACK.

That nothing else would impede him more than BEING BLACK.

I said, before Obama ran, that the question for me was:

Would White People Actually Vote for Somebody Black as President?

We don't know the answer to that question.
But, I want the answer to that question.

We're moving down the highway to a moment of truth for this country, and I honestly don't know which way it's going to turn out.

IS Racism that deep for White folks that they'd turn away the Black candidate who would try and improve over their lives, for the White Senile Asshole who's already told them that he intends to continue to fuck them over?

Would White People Actually Vote for Somebody Black as President?

We don't know the answer to that question.
But, I want the answer to that question.

You know, rik, I think that one of those reasons black folks haven't backed down from the 95%+ of Obama - we're willing to press the issue to let white folks demonstrate some readiness for true racial reconciliation or if they're still stuck on stupid.

"Would White People Actually Vote for Somebody Black as President?" NO!

"IS Racism that deep for White folks that they'd turn away the Black candidate who would try and improve over their lives, for the White Senile Asshole who's already told them that he intends to continue to fuck them over?" YES!, it's that deep, even deeper I believe.

As I’ve stated before I sincerely hope I’m completely wrong. But, given white America’s voting habits, history, and their KNOWN attitudes towards Blacks I have no faith that white America will vote for the good Obama in large enough numbers to elect him. Even in my relatively short life time (I’m 33) they just haven’t shown me anything that would or should give me reason that they will do anything other than what they have already shown us.

"We're moving down the highway to a moment of truth for this country,..."

You are right. Quite simply, he is "the most talented one since Reagan.” And for this reason alone white America would have no excuse good enough to explain to the world why they couldn’t vote for America’s most talented presidential candidate since Reagan.

Forced to choose between their image and their self-image.

Tough...

my grandfather always used to say that white america is blinded by their own racism, which in this case would explain why they would willingly walk off the cliff with the McSame greedy ass republican party that screwed them and their grand children's children rather than follow a black man anywhere else.

That Jefferson and DeToueqville were right when it came to race just read the example of Jeffereson's note of the state of Virginia

"It will probably be asked, Why not retain and incorporate the blacks into the state, and thus save the expence of supplying, by importation of white settlers, the vacancies they will leave? Deep rooted prejudices entertained by the whites; ten thousand recollections, by the blacks, of the injuries they have sustained; new provocations; the real distinctions which nature has made; and many other circumstances, will divide us into parties, and produce convulsions which will probably never end but in the extermination of the one or the other race."Notes on the State of Virginia, by Thomas Jefferson

Obama lost the minute he ran, he could not shake off his race because deep down in White America's subconcious they can not accept us as citizens much less human beings even the most liberal as witnessed by the Democratic Primary in which Obama ran a better organized campaign and HRC ran a terrible one from the start and they blame Obama for stealing HRC birthright,and he's running a better campaign than Mc Cain and whites still can't bring themselves to vote for a Black Man/Woman no matter how qualifed they are. I think Black Americans are going to get their feelings hurt in Novemeber and I feel for the young people(esp young blacks) because but I am a racial realist and harbor no such positive beliefs in the majority society to overlook race like they do. May God help us all and those young people we will have to explain the reality of race and merit because the milquetoast blacks will use every excuse instead of dealing with the reality, These are the times I wished we had these giants to help young people and older people make sense of why we felt so cyncial ....

John Henrik Clarke
Malcolm
MLK
Huey Newton
W.E.B. DuBois
James Baldwin

"...ten thousand recollections, by the blacks, of the injuries they have sustained.."

Jefferson and others who followed in his wake were the chief promoters of this type of lie masquerading as some form of truth. Black people would, of course, remember incidents of ill treatment. How could they fail not to remember such incidents? Jefferson and his ilk would like to equate these memories with the crimes and inhumane events that gave rise to these memories. The problem ain't about black folks seeking revenge. The problem is that white folks fear that they will and what is worse they want to be forgiven by blacks without ever making amends.

EXCATLY ON POINT !!!!

newsoulus,
aint no coincidence that the black leadership we need so desperately was a victim of white sabotage and assassination. The infrastructure that would have resulted from natural development had these leaders been able to operate in a "free" society would have placed black people in a more independent and powerful economic and political position where our hands would not be held out to our masters begging for a fair shake and a crumb of the American pie.

there is a difference between benign racial hatred ( defined as personal feelings held within or even expressed verbally ) vs. active intervention to subvert the progress of a people on a national scale, not just average Joe white boy's daily discrimination in society but specifically government sanctioned actions such as Jim Crow and COINTELPRO. Its the detrimental physical actions they plot and execute that have hamstrung national black potential through systematic decapitation of our leadership.

I don't care whether you like me or not as long as the playing field is level..... let the best man win.
they as a people are paralyzed by fear, cheating mitigates exposing their inferiority "complex"