Prometheus 6

“It’s opened my eyes to at least pay attention.”

I didn't read the entire article. A good chunk of it was just intellectually lazy and I could only endure 3/4s of the first page. If the second page gets better, let me know.

First of all, white people need to stop talking about black politics altogether. If they can't remember that Hillary started out with a 3:2 margin, they need to shut up. If they can't remember that the more Billary talked racially, if not racistly, they need to shut up. We didn't support Obama because we wanted so badly to see a black man in the white house. Well . . . at least not until after Super Tuesday.

Why can't, or maybe won't, anyone give black folks credit for making a rational choice. For thinking Obama was the better choice compared to Clinton? Like we're just dumb black sheep or something. If for no other reason than that, and there are several, we are not yet "post racial."

And these women who want to compare themselves to black folks but openly admit they haven't been really paying attention. They didn't even listen to Barack acceptance speech and still yet, argue he doesn't have a message for them, a message for women. How do they know that if they haven't been listening? They've discounted him without giving him an honest opportunity to here. (As a sudden epiphany, maybe that's what white people's problem with affirmative action is. They know most of these black applicants would be tossed away as soon as the Black/African American box was checked. But now, instead of giving that job to a white person, they actually have to give the black applicant an honest study. - But that's just a sudden thought, something for me to finish working out later.)

The say the feel the DNC is taken women's votes for granted. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't women make up the majority of voters in the Dem primaries? So doesn't that mean they're taking their each other for granted?

And let's remember that once again, when black and white progressives/liberals/democrats can work together to do something to improve the lot for all of us, there's a group of white people, this time women, who are holding out to the detriment of us all.

Some pundits, especially conservatives, are already arguing that if Obama loses, we can't necessarily blame it on racism. Well, what are we to blame it on?

I read Zernike's piece in its entirety and the only thing I came away is this: these women want what they want whenever they want what they want. They are simply not able to grasp the fact that Hillary Clinton alone was responsible for losing the nomination. She alienated a large swath of the party's activist base by voting to give Bush the authority to invade Iraq and she refused again and again to apologize for that vote. And 18 million votes is not enough to win the nomination when Hillary Clinton and her campaign staff did not have a well-documented clue as to how to go about winning enough delegates to secure the nomination. These women can blame Obama, sexism, black folks, the wind, fate, the juxtaposition of the sun and moon or anything else that allows them to excuse Hillary Clinton's incompetence.

candidate, including Dubya. Why do I say that? 41 never campaigned for Shrub the way Bubba did Hillary.

and, she lost.

If they vote for James Dobson in a dress, then fuck them.

I wish that I had time to peruse blog sites that are run by lesbians who are also women of color. I am beginning to suspect that there is, in part, an undercurrent of emotion and entitlement to these women's anger and disappointment that I am not comfortable in approaching, in part, because of a fear of being called a homophobic black male.

ptc, I think there is an undercurrent of entitlement to these women's anger. The claim they empathize with being passed over for an underqualified male - I don't like that claim because it either denies Obama's race, or is racial "resentment" of affirmative action.

Like you said earlier, they just can't accept that Clinton lost. And the only way she even wins the popular vote is if you count Michigan. These people have a lot of issues, starting with their distance from reality.

btw, ptc, you didn't say whether or not the entire article was worth reading.

btw, ptc, you didn't say whether or not the entire article was worth reading.

I didn't learn anything that I didn't already know or suspect.

I suspected as much.

"ptc, I think there is an undercurrent of entitlement to these women's anger."

The anger of these women toward Obama and implicit feelings of disrespect they exhibit toward Michelle Obama seems grossly out of proportion to anything that Obama could possibly have said about or done to Hillary Clinton during the primary campaign. Yes, I understand their disappointment but their feelings of rage about Clinton's loss are so extreme, in my opinion, that it seems to reveal a large measure of hostility toward men in general. I understand this anger as well but I find it ironic that Barack Obama is being seen as a symbol of oppressive white male patriarchy by these women. Their feelings are real but it is absurd in the extreme. A black man who has to bear the brunt of their anger and disappointment for their having colluded for generation after generation with their enemies.

I understand this anger as well but I find it ironic that Barack Obama is being seen as a symbol of oppressive white male patriarchy by these women.

To make matters worse, ptc, part of the reason they claim he's unfit is that he's weak. Clinton's supporters tried to paint him as too "feminine." You remember, "If Hillary gave Barack one of her balls they'd both have two?"

These women make no sense. It's like a mixture of racism, misandry, and sheer stupidity. Even from the black Clinton holdouts.

I'm far from understanding this myself, why women (especially black women who seem to me to have nothing to gain from it) would support Clinton to the detriment of Obama after he clearly won. Maybe it was leftover angst about sexism-- perceived or real, doesn't matter-- from the Obama side during the earlier primaries. Maybe he was showing too much ego-- too much "presumption" in being the presumptive nominee.

My way of making an honest attempt to "get it" is to be willing to have my head handed to me by one of "these women" in open discussion, backing off of the constant need to be 100% right in my Obama support. I don't really get it yet, and I'm still in Obama's camp, but anyway there's the effort. I was wondering why I was in such a discussion on the side, and not in this forum while we go on here about it making no sense. Why no counterargument? I think it's because a certain level of trust has to be set up among the participants.

ptcruiser says: "I wish that I had time to peruse blog sites that are run by lesbians who are also women of color." Yeah, I don't have more than 24 hours/day either but if the answers aren't being posted here it's because someone isn't comfortable discussing it here. Or, someone thinks we're untrainable en masse. There are "white" forums I won't post on for that reason.

I'm far from understanding this myself, why women (especially black women who seem to me to have nothing to gain from it) would support Clinton to the detriment of Obama after he clearly won.

So far, it seems like there really aren't that many of them.

Why no counterargument? I think it's because a certain level of trust has to be set up among the participants.

Well, there's a couple of possible reasons.

1. As a "friend of the show" you know that, to the degree it is known, P6 is known for a pro-Black bias and rationality (I let the occasional object lesson through to keep the idea current amonst the trolls). There is no argument for supporting Hillary for President post-convention that doesn't resolve itself to something like road rage over denied entitlements.
2. My anti-endorsement. I may have been the first to specifically note the Clintons were using the Southern Strategy in the primaries. My candidate was ABC...Anyone But Clinton. 
3. It's REAL HARD to make sexism charges stick around here. I can't make the feminist argument against it, so when I see it I just cut it off at the knees.
4. The site's official position is defending Black folks (including Obama) against lies so we've never produced the sort of anti-Hillary screed that puts us on the warrior trolls' radar.
5. I haven't reached out to them. At all.