Prometheus 6

see that's why I come here daily

Oh, yes, I remember them well. Folks like Rep. John Lewis, Bob Moses, Marian Wright Edelman, Stokely Carmichael, Mchael Schwerner, James Chaney, Martin Luther King and the list goes on.

Usually I don't get riled up by the Republicans' little language games, but that one really got me. The hard-core right insists that people not rely on government, that they use their own talent and ingenuity to build a better life.

Yet someone who actually tries to do this is the punchline of an inside joke to these people. That, more than just about anything I've heard from them, reveals their real nature. They don't want anyone to build a better life. They want "you people" to know your place.

The hard-core right insists that people not rely on government, that they use their own talent and ingenuity to build a better life.

What really annoys me is how these folks continually deny or conveniently forget the role that the government has played in fostering and supporting their talent and ingenuity.

Party of the Neo-Confederates? what party is this?

Ask any Neo-Confederate who he's voting for in November. In any November for the past 40 years, in fact. It's the party that's dominant in the states in which Neo-Confederates operate.

Need another clue?

Well since the Confederates were Democrats, it must be the Democratic Party.

I'm not talking about Confederates. I'm talking about Neo-Confederates...specifically because I expected a comment like that.

By the way...NCborn means North Carolina born, right?

No?

Well since the Confederates were Democrats, it must be the Democratic Party.

Neo-Confederates are not members of the Democratic Party. The Confederates and Dixiecrats hatted up in 1964 and joined the Republican Party. But you knew all of this already, right?

I am still not sure what a neo-confederate is though, the best I can figure is that it is someone that supports a weak federal government and strong state government. That is what confederate means.

yes, NCborn stands for born in NC. But, I have lived and many places including California....now that is a different kind of place.

I personally don't like either party..they have both stopped serving the people and started serving themselves.

I am still not sure what a neo-confederate is

Google "neo-confederate". Don't forget the "neo-". You seem to have a tendency to do that.

It seems that someone made up this neo-confederate name to bash southern people. It doesn't seem to matter if they are black or white, if they are for what the founding fathers were for, believe in God, and are southern then they are neo-confederates.

I am still not sure what a neo-confederate is though, the best I can figure is that it is someone that supports a weak federal government and strong state government. That is what confederate means.

These folks are still in denial and will always be in denial. The argument was about slavery and the frenzied desire of the slaveholding states to expand slavery into the new states and territories.

"These folks are still in denial and will always be in denial. The argument was about slavery and the frenzied desire of the slaveholding states to expand slavery into the new states and territories."

The reason "These folks" have the argument is because it is the true. You can't hide from the truth....do some research instead of just believing what you were told or what you want to be true.

I will agree that slavery was one of many reasons for the war, but it was far from the main reason.

I am sorry to bust your bubble but both the North and the South was full of racist white people back then and they didn't fight each other over blacks. It was over money and power.

I am sorry to bust your bubble but both the North and the South was full of racist white people back then and they didn't fight each other over blacks. It was over money and power.

I know. That doesn't make your case any less disgusting. 

"That doesn't make your case any less disgusting."

I don't get that. What case?

Don't put words in my mouth. I am not for slavery or for the Confederacy. I am just for the truth about what happened.

The reason "These folks" have the argument is because it is the true. You can't hide from the truth....do some research instead of just believing what you were told or what you want to be true.

I am well aware that the North does not have clean hands in this matter but, today, nearly 150 years after the Civil War, it is, by and large, only folks like you who are still trying to promote a morally repugnant argument and an historically inaccurate version of events. The northern states and their various constituencies were quite content to allow your ancestors to continue to enslave my ancestors but they were opposed to increasing the number of slaveholding states and territories.

You are making a profoundly disgusting and deeply ignorant argument in support of a cause that was always immoral.

I wondered why they were saying communiter organizer with such disdain.

Most of you know I'm for a Truth and Reconciliation movement. But, that aside, is there anything black folks can do to succeed? I mean like, claim a large part of land as "reperations," plus the money and everything, and start our own country?

We probably would need to have a strong defence, in which case, I call for aligning with Venezuala and Brazil. And China! China'll have our back!

I don't get that. What case?

Your pretense to ignorance is offensive.

Most of you know I'm for a Truth and Reconciliation movement.

Black folks have been engaged in a Truth and Reconciliation movement for more than three centuries. Those days are done. No more. We do not need to hear anymore confessions or apologies. We know what the truth is in terms of our experiences here in America. We do not need to create commissions, stage hearings and put on a lot of other folderol.

Don't put words in my mouth. I am not for slavery or for the Confederacy. I am just for the truth about what happened.

Then don't put topics on my site. I said it's neo-confederates under discussion. The history you want to tell is irrelevant. Maybe they named themselves to embarass Confederates rather than to honor them as they claim. Whatever. That is irrelevant in the face of their physical existence. 

I use the name they chose for themselves. You got beef, go discuss it with them.

Sorry to have jumped in so hard on the Confederate thing. I am just tired of people running down southerners every chance they get.

It is good that the south didn't win or we would have lost World War II for sure and now at least the federal government can keep California from getting too crazy. So it is good that we have a strong central govenment than independent state governments like the forefathers invisioned. The south just didn't want another King after all the American Revolution had only been won about 80 years earlier.

But that aside, I am definately not for the racist/neo-confederate crap that I found at google. But I am not for putting all the blame on the south.

I don't like the Republicans (I don't have enough money to be one of them) and I don't like the Democrats ( I am a Christian can't go for killing babies or gay rights). So I am a bit on the outside looking in at all the fighting between them.

Then where's the separationist movement? I think I'm going to google for one.

NCBorn is obviously leaking blood from all holes P6 and PT have shot in his 2008 racist ramblings. No need for me to get involved here ...AKA overkill.

no1kstate - I agree, I'm thinking that the same formula that they used to create a Jewish state and that continues to receive Billions of dollars in non- strings attached yearly support will work. I was going to suggest California but they would sabotage the San Andreas fault and drop Cali in the Pacific drink out of spite..

Sandman, that's genius! Cause crimes against humanity occurred long past the creation of Liberia. Now, all we need to do is choose what land we want. I say the gulf south. Our ancestors have earned every acre of this land.

Take Florida - enough condos for everyone.

but, it's been an interesting read.

Too many contradictions here to list lately. Why is it that helping out after Gustav or Katrina is lauded, but community organizing is not? I think we know the answer. Lakesha, in the hood has sex as a teen and gets pregnant, but Gov. Palin's daughter does the same thing, and it should be considered a "private" issue and doesn't reflect any kind of pathology, or indict an entire group of people.

Very good no1- I have often struggled with location but I like the logic of the gulf states definitely earned in blood and defensible as a choice based upon that and the high concentration of population already there.

And when all else is thrown out there.. La, Al, Miss are demographically the lowest per capita states in earning and education, include the latest round of hurricanes and they may want to give them away and think they are getting over on us.

We can trade Florida and the heavy Jewish population that will resist and block any inclusion for the gulf oil rights

Y'all scaring those swing voters that Br. Obama is trying to cultivate. (:~)

Basically if you come in hot and fast, you're likely to be devowelled on sight. And if you insist on being stupid, i.e. a pattern of thread diversion, repeating questions that have been answered, ad hominem, you're likely to be told, then devowelled. Straight bullshit, i.e., defending the Confederacy while claiming unfamiliarity with Neo-Confederates, may take a turn or two because I sometimes find the evasions amusing.

In any event, I prefer handling such issues in ways that work, or at least can be paralleled, face to face.

Hmmm, Sandman. I think we may have a plan.

We need a couple of nukes just as an anti-invasion deterrent, don't start none won't be none
As our native American brothers said, "whats the difference between a treaty and toilet paper?"
ans. one is softer with a roll in the middle

Well if we join with the Caribbean islands, we can form a larger economy. And Russia would love nothing better that to have somewhere to place come nukes or "anti-missile" defence systems. And if not Russia, China. There're millions of Chinese descendents in the Caribbean, and lord knows I love me some Chinese food!

Plus, we can help evacuate when hurricanes come through the Caribbean. Especially Grenada. Knowing what Reagan did to them all for nothing, we got to partner with them.

ROTFL "lord knows I love me some Chinese food!"
but seriously, I like the Caribbean connection, Cuba and Venezuela would be strong partners, Cuba would be excellent for building our educational system and Venezuela for energy and financing independence. We can then get a lock on Tourism in the gulf by developing the poorer countries into a unified vacation area manged under a unified cartel. oh yeah speaking of cartels might as well annex the off shore banking countries and dominate the western swiss style banking system

might as well annex the off shore banking countries and dominate the western swiss style banking system

Might as well!

btw, P6 and ptc - Remember a month or so back when I was suggestion one of you be president of our African States of America? Well, someone has jumped into the elections!

After Nov 4, I'm going to start a real blog "constitutional convention" for the new country. Don't wanna get nothing started before Obama wins

After Nov 4, I'm going to start a real blog "constitutional convention" for the new country.

Black folks have participated in the development of every part of this land, including the attempted eradication of its native people. Why should we ever agree to accept some undeveloped part of the western hemisphere as a payoff for our contributions to creating the United States of America?

Also, given the fierce resistance that Israel is still facing from the displaced Palestinians sixty years later, our chances of pulling off the same trick, especially in an age of asymmetric warfare, seems remote unless we accept being a satellite of the United States.

We're just talking about the gulf states or the south east of the US. Sure, we can accept being a satellite for a few years. You know how dumb some of the leaders in govt are. After a few years, we can just go to China or Russia.

Just because it didn't work doesn't mean it won't. America ain't what it used to me. Especially if they push any further into Afganistan or Iran.

We're just talking about the gulf states or the south east of the US. Sure, we can accept being a satellite for a few years.

Why should we ever agree to accept the most undeveloped and culturally backward sections of the United States as compensation for our contributions toward building the entire country?

You know how dumb some of the leaders in govt are. After a few years, we can just go to China or Russia.

Are you serious? Are you making a joke here?

Must undeveloped culturally backward? Cause we ain't in charge.

Okay. So not everybody in govt is stupid, but BushCo and the people who elected them are. So a little serious, a little not so serious.

Besides, so long as our market stays open to them, they could care less.

I'm serious, I agree no1kstate, the reason they are culturally and economically underdeveloped is the same reason Africa is willfully under developed.to keep control of the population, ....dumb them down and keep them hungry

I'd rather have the underdeveloped states and the the resources to develop the infrastructure and educational system. Hence the Billions in yearly reparations payments. We have enough expertise working in government and corporate America to build and run our own.

The black folks too scared leave or comfortable living where they are cans stay... no hard feelings and your still welcome if you get tired of white people messing with you

Must undeveloped culturally backward? Cause we ain't in charge.

The reasons why don't matter. What matters is that these sections of the country are the least developed and most culturally backward. My point is why should we assume the immense liabilities that we would incur as a result of taking control of these regions? Think about, for example, what it would cost to protect these areas from hurricanes and other natural disasters?

Okay. So then what do you suggest we take ptc?

My plan B was to join up with Chicanos and take back Mexico. We'd be even closer to China, and I loves me some Mexican food, too!

does that include Texas, NM, AZ and CA?
LOL no1kstate - why don't we start with what type of food you don't like

Yeah, it includes all that stuff and a lot more.

I don't think I like Thai food. I've only been to two Thai restaurants, but everything seems to have coconut in it and I don't like coconut. And also, I doubt I'd like Australian food. Alligators are not for me. And we all know the Brits can cook.

You should give Thai food another try go for something not based upon coconut which I don't like either. Something either basil or garlic based and I think you will like it.

N E way nay sayers aside, The Gulf states plan seems to be a go, with the yearly billions lets say for the next 400 plus years. With an Africa investment plan to boot since the human and material resources stolen and exploited have had an incalculable genocidal effect on the under development of the continent.

It would easier if the two of you just opened an ethnic food court.

If I recall, they're on opposite sides of the country, so it would have to be a franchise operation.

I can see it now: Thai, No Coconut

Since the food industry is taking it on the chin and hurting in this economy, I'm going to pass.

But any talk of starting sustainable black owned and controlled manufacturing business and I'm down for talking about producing instead of consuming.

Except our main hurdle is some negros are too scared to separate
Black independence is negatively perceived as separatist from an integration stand point, I guess we could get more support if we partner with white people for the "ol Kumba ya". That way Mantan Moreland negros wont be threatened and "perceive" us as "too black", "too independent" and "too strong" and may venture off the porch of the house to support the cause.

"Everyone has a backbone but you have to STAND UP to use it"

How do people participate in a new nation without moving there? My family is widely scattered across the continent, having spread from South to Midwest to West and back into New England over the past couple of centuries. We've staked a lot of claims in a lot of places that don't have hurricanes, and some of us get along better when we're spread out. I'm not suggesting another location for the budding nation being described-- whenever I hear a conversation about this, it involves reclaiming a big chunk of the original US South so why fight it. Just wondering about those, uh, left behind, to borrow a phrase. Fill in this part, please! Besides, some of the best Thai food is in California and Hawaii...

it involves reclaiming a big chunk of the original US South so why fight it.

I'm like a broken record. Black folks have helped to build this entire country. Why should accept the least developed and most culturally backward area of the country as a form of reparations?

In my above about "reclaiming a big chunk of the South," I could have made it clearer that I was mentioning the usual argument, not what me and mine would advocate. It always seems to be about getting some land in the South and not, say, the West Coast states or New England. Most of my geographically scattered family would not be first in line to move back to the South, although a few would. Duly noted that some posts above mine are focused on the Gulf States. I say, good for them, go for it, but what's so great about the South that we should all want it, even in that parallel world where such a thing could happen? Maybe this is just a variation on what ptcruiser is asking.

ProfGeo,
Black folks can choose to live where ever they want in this scenario. I/bank "own" property here in Cali and choose to hold ownership. As for hurricanes, the Southern east coast, Fl and Texas are'nt immune either. Ans. - don't build where it floods and reinforce everything else.

PT - You are right, black people deserve to choose, we built this country including DC and the white house but you will be waiting forever for the devil to give that up. Historically he has never "given" anything of value away, look at the "reservations".

In this case under developed means a semi clean slate to build upon. while you're arguing for decades for a piece of NY, FL or California ( potential G8 member as a country ) I guarantee that the reconstruction or construction of the south will be far along the way. Including a new infrastructure with modern high speed rail transportation, a networked educational system and deep water ports for international trade.

Resources are the key, with capital you can build what you want and develop the industries that you want, such as specializing in renewable resource manufacturing.

I'm all for an independent black economy. I wish we had our own stock market so we could know we're investing in ourselves.

And the reason I'm so drawn to the gulf states is, beyond the ancestral due, it puts us closer to the African diaspora of the Caribbean. And I think the Caribbean would be much stronger itself if all the nations states just formed one nation.

And I wanna catch the sugar cane ethanol boom on the ground floor. The more states that are part of the African diaspora work together, the less we'll need the World Bank and the IMF. And once we're one some reasonable solid ground, we can begin supporting our Mother Africa.

And as far as not wanting to move, you can still have citizenship. I'm not sure about dual citizenship, though.

In this case under developed means a semi clean slate to build upon. while you're arguing for decades for a piece of NY, FL or California ( potential G8 member as a country )

No one is REALLY arguing for anything, right?

You are right, black people deserve to choose, we built this country including DC and the white house but you will be waiting forever for the devil to give that up.

Me and mine ain't waiting for anybody to give it up or to acknowledge our ancestors roles in creating and building these things. I think you and kstate are exaggerating or overestimating the degree of political, cultural and religious tolerance that exists among the folk and which I consider absolutely necessary to the creation of a new state.

P6 your right there is no arguing going on

No. There's no argument going on. Just some dreaming outline.

I just don't know how much more of white inanity I can take, and I'm not even 30 yet!

I just don't know how much more of white inanity I can take, and I'm not even 30 yet!

Just imagine what our ancestors had to put up with all of their lives.

In the absence of another tangible scenario being put forth then, the "we deserve more" therefore we wont "settle" for the gulf states stance will be a unending circular argument.

hence all the while we argue amongst ourselves or with white people there will be no movement, my comment was that by comparison we could be far down the road in our reconstruction plan if we proceeded with action, instead of endless debate on what we are owed in the country.

What we are owed which can never be truly calculated in any reparation any scenario up to and including handing over the entire U.S. and national and world wide asset holdings of all white people that benefited from slavery past through present.still wont come close to satisfying the debt owed. Its also why I don't believe in the back to Africa movement as an end game solution.

So if anyone wants to name a different geographical solution weigh in with it otherwise give up the we are owed more argument as the stopper to progress.

I agree, Sandman. It's not about white validation. I know what they did. That's enough. We're judge and jury in this case.

And while my Republic of African Diaspora was more fantasy than real, I just refuse a futalistic attitude. I'm aware of what a least one of my ancestors went through. And as or as the rest, they certainly didn't survive all the humilily and injustice just so we could say, "Whatever. We're tired of fighting."

So for now, know, it not a real argument. But after the elections, whether Barack wins or not, something must be done. We don't have to go gently into that good night.

I truly don't give a dam what white people think, its their active intervention that pisses me off. They act like black people can't get their sh*t together when in fact they have been sabotaging black progress in this country through governmental and private citizen driven actions since the 1865 so called end of slavery. Let us compete with out the hamstrings and we would own this entire place right now.

I've heard so many colored people claim that all white Southerners should have to give them millions of dollars every year. Okay, it's true that my family did own a lot of slaves before the War of Northern Agression (1861-1865). I'm going to tell y'all the same thing that I tell the colored people who demand that white Southerners pay them for something that we're not a part of: all the colored people in this country need to go back to Africa or whereever their ancestors came from.

First: fuck you and the horse you rode in on.

Second my ancestors are from right here. One of them was a Confederate general. RGM Dunovant, reported to your traitor president.

Don't try coming back, bitch. I only approved this so everyone can see what arrogant assholes neo-Confederates are (I saw you came in from AOL on a search for neo-confederate...what folk call an "ego search", I guess).

War of Northern Agression

Nathan's ancestors refused to take yes for answer. The north had no intentions of forcing the south to abandon the practice of slavery but it had every intention for good economic and political reasons from preventing the south to bring slavery into the new territories and states.

I'm like you, P6. My paternal great-great-grandfather was an illiterate Irishman who legally immigrated to this country. He legally married a mulatto woman, my great-great-grandmother. I have a photo of her and her two sons, one of whom was my paternal great-grandfather. He and his brother, both of whom were born in Mexico, could have easily passed for white men but they chose to be black and married black women. I ain't going nowhere, no how, no way. This is my home.

All these crackas out there are scared and can see the writing on the wall, that the white man's self hypnosis of superiority has been revealed to the last person on the planet to believe that tripe...the white man himself. Now that the Republicans have gutted the final pennies of wealth and run up the biggest national credit card debt in history. ...Thank Reagan, Bush I and Bush II for driving the final nails.

Now step aside and stop holding the rest of the world hostage to your reality denial syndrome. Accept that Hollywood John Wayne like the rest of the war hawks never were in the military and your government sat back and watched the towers fall after arming and paying the Taliban and Bin Laden.The majority of welfare recipients are white and the other 95% are working poor like everyone else in the U.S. Fear rules white people and all you have to do is scare them and they will give up ass ( and civil rights ) to be pacified.

Your power lays squarely in dominating and abusing the defenseless and cheating and lying to stay in power. You never competed fairly one day in this country and the best you can show is 1% owns everything. Your collective ignorant mob mentality is about the same as a herd of lemmings headed for the cliff of DNA irrelevance. If your dumb enough to live in a trailer in hurricane alley, your too dumb to survive evolution. Peace out, your a stain on the history of this planet

my ancestors are from right here. One of them was a Confederate general.

My paternal great-great-grandfather was an illiterate Irishman who legally immigrated to this country... I ain't going nowhere, no how, no way. This is my home.

P6, that was definitely chum in the water, letting that post through, but one must make an example of the unwise now and then...

I think it's good to remind the ignorant that most of us are of mixed ancestry, and they should harbor no expectation that anyone with WASP ancestry would even think about moving (or being moved) anywhere. Except maybe right next door to annoy the heck out of 'em. But from another perspective, even without the mixed heritage, our African-American ancestors were also born here. Based on that alone, we're staying. No further explanation necessary.

Yeah, there were several good responses possible. The best one for the communty's sake is that our ancestors are at least as much "from here" as any white person's, and far more than most. I chose the response that would annoy the neo-Confederate most.

You are absolutely right Sandman. If one's dominance and preeminence is the result of "Stolen Legacy", genocide and slavery fear and hate of the rise of your subjects is an understandable response. And for those us that think this type of thinking is dead it was good that P6 allowed Nathan's blog. Its god to see your enemy; I like my racist out in the open.

Here in California we face the most dangerous enemy, the one that smiles in your face and professes "liberal" views of racial harmony and then most cowardly stabs you in the back in the dark. Give me a confederate flag flying venom spewing "scissor bill" any day at least you know where he stands.
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by Donna R. Gabaccia
Charles H. Stone Professor of American History
The University of North Carolina at Charlotte

Immigration reached its historical peak in the Gilded Age and Progressive Era (GAPE), as almost twelve million immigrants entered the U.S. between 1890 and 1910. Most historians of immigration refer to the years including the GAPE as the years of "the new immigration," distinguishing this migration of southern and eastern Europeans (and, to much lesser extent, Mexicans and Asians) from the "old immigration" of northern and western Europeans and Chinese of the years 1850-1880. Laws severely restricting immigration cut off this new immigration between 1917 and 1924.
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This means that black people have centuries of seniority over the vast majority of white people in this country and therefore any discussion of who should leave should be based upon vesting.

They are always last on the scene but first to claim ownership and superiority
"lets remember that the tallest building on earth until the 19th century was the great pyramid"

Awwwooooo. Calm down people. The answer is as simple as this. Whatever plane/boat takes us to Africa needs to make a few stops in Europe first.

Period. Discusson over.

I forgot to mention that one of my cousins and I have used slave and census records to trace our paternal grandmother's family's arrival in this country back to the 17th Century at least one hundred years before the War for Independence.

I didn't do all that, but my father did. I know because I helped pull some stuff together for him. The first one I actually consider to be my ancestor was a mulatto that broke with his family for various reasons and wound up living with free Blacks.

Yeah, black folks have been here for a long, long time.