The McLaughlin Group is a lot more serious about being online than they were a year ago. They are absolutely current with transcripts from The McLaughlin Group, and as of this writing have video of the shows through last week.

This week one of the topics was the estate tax, and Mortimer Zuckerman gave an excellent description of the state of affairs.

MR. ZUCKERMAN: I think this is one of the most immoral pieces of legislation imaginable. Of the 19,000 people that you referred to last year who paid estate taxes, only 440 of them -- count that; that's not a typo -- 440 of them were small businesses or farms.

This is mostly the wealthy people who never pay taxes on the appreciation of their assets. Their companies are assets that grew during their lifetime. They never sold it so they never paid taxes on it. Now it's going to go to their beneficiaries, and they will not pay taxes on it. So it's a wonderful program for the one-third of 1 percent at the most who really made a lot of money.

Here's the exchange:

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Issue Two: Death and Taxes.

The estate tax is the tax levied on the assets of a person after he or she dies. Some call it the death tax. Getting rid of it has been a top priority for George Bush. In 2001, in response to Mr. Bush's call, Congress voted to phase out the estate tax over a 10-year period in a series of exemptions.

This year, 2005, $1.5 million in estate assets are exempt. By 2009, $3.5 million will be exempt. In 2010, the entire estate is exempt; but get this -- for that one year, 2010, only. The following year, 2011, the estate tax returns at a tax rate of 55 percent on the largest estate, with only $1 million exempt.

President Bush and Republicans argue that the tax punishes work, thrift and success.

REP. TOM LATHAM (R-IA): (From videotape.) Nothing is more hurtful than a tax that takes away the hope of the American dream. This country is based on farms, on small businesses. That is the life blood of this nation, and nothing destroys it more than the death tax.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Ridiculous, say advocates of the estate tax. Only a few are subject to it -- a wealthy few.

REP. SANDER LEVIN (D-MI): (From videotape.) One-third of the estate tax is paid by the wealthiest one in 1,000 Americans -- I think that's one-tenth of 1 percent -- not farmers or small business people. That is the lamest argument brought to this floor in recent memory.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Nineteen thousand taxpayers on this April the 15th will owe $935,000 on average each. And if we repeal the tax, $290 billion in revenue will be lost over 10 years. So Mort, you're the obvious one on this, but I'm going to -- (laughter) --

MR. ZUCKERMAN: You mean the obvious one to die? Is that what you're saying? Thank you very much.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: And if you do die, set the date for 2010 -- no estate tax.

MR. ZUCKERMAN: I've already scheduled it for 2011. I believe in paying taxes.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Do you want to speak to this?

MS. CLIFT: The Republicans did a terrific snow job on this, because most Americans somehow think they're affected when, in fact, this should have been called the Paris Hilton tax. I mean, it only affects the very wealthy. And it actually -- small businesses get hurt, and it affects the deficit. I mean, Republicans have more votes in the Senate, but there are still some responsible Republicans left who worry about the deficit. And I don't know how they would pay for this. They probably don't intend to pay for it.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: On Wednesday, the House of Representatives voted 272-162 to repeal the tax permanently after the year 2010. Forty-two Democrats, by the way, sided with the Republicans. So is the estate tax -- I ask you again -- the moral equivalent of grave-robbing?

MR. BLANKLEY: It's not the moral equivalent of anything. But let me tell you what I think is going to happen. I don't think it will pass in the Senate currently. But if Social Security goes down, is not able to be passed by the president, then I think death tax, as part of the next initiative on tax cuts, is likely to be reborn, and some form of increasing the cutoff on death tax permanently is likely to come into being.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Do you think this is legalized grave robbery?

MR. ZUCKERMAN: I think this is one of the most immoral pieces of legislation imaginable. Of the 19,000 people that you referred to last year who paid estate taxes, only 440 of them -- count that; that's not a typo -- 440 of them were small businesses or farms.

This is mostly the wealthy people who never pay taxes on the appreciation of their assets. Their companies are assets that grew during their lifetime. They never sold it so they never paid taxes on it. Now it's going to go to their beneficiaries, and they will not pay taxes on it. So it's a wonderful program for the one-third of 1 percent at the most who really made a lot of money.

MR. BUCHANAN: Let me speak for the upper middle class.

MR. ZUCKERMAN: (We have established?) a plutocracy in this country. I think it's a terrible program.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: The majority of the senators are millionaires.

MR. ZUCKERMAN: Yes, that's right.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: And that's small change for you.

MR. ZUCKERMAN: Well, thank you very much. I appreciate the compliment.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: So you think they will reflect your views with regard to the repulsiveness of the estate tax?

MR. ZUCKERMAN: I don't know. I hope so, because I think this is really one of the least -- one of the --

MR. BUCHANAN: Let me talk for the middle class here, if I might.

MR. ZUCKERMAN: For the middle class -- excuse me, Pat.

MR. BUCHANAN: Now, wait a minute. Look, we pay --

MR. ZUCKERMAN: For the middle class --

MR. BUCHANAN: Look, the average middle-class guy that's doing well pays 50 percent of his income right now in state and federal and payroll and property and sales taxes. Then they take what he earns and what he's got left. Then they come in and take half of what he's got for his kids.

MS. CLIFT: That's not what is at issue here.

MR. BUCHANAN: He ought to get rid of this grave-robbers' tax. You get rid of the bureaucracy. Get rid of the estate planners. Simplify, simplify. It's a great thing and it's going to pass, regardless of the skepticism of Count Blankley.

MR. BLANKLEY: I can't count, are you saying? (Laughs.)

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: And it defeats the values of thrift and the values of work and the values of success.

MR. ZUCKERMAN: Absolutely not. It's going to --

MS. CLIFT: Progressive Democrats last week came out with an interesting tax idea, and that is, why don't we tax capital and earning at the same rate -- (ranges?) at the same rate? Right now the working man pays more on the money that he puts his blood, sweat and tears out for than people get on capital that just sits there. It's an interesting idea. We're going to hear more about it.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: One-word answer -- one-word answer. Will the estate tax be repealed? Will it be compromised, which means setting a different exemption of assets level? Or will it stay in place?

MR. BUCHANAN: The grave robber is gone.

MS. CLIFT: Some reform so --

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Some reform.

MS. CLIFT: -- those 440 farmers don't get hurt. But otherwise, no.

MR. BLANKLEY: I think ultimately compromise with probably a pretty high limit, maybe $10 million, $15 million.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: That high? How about $5 (million)?

MR. BLANKLEY: No, I think higher.

MR. ZUCKERMAN: Even the Democrats are prepared to accept a limit of three and a half million per spouse, so it's $7 million for a married couple. I think it may go as high as $10 million for a married couple. Beyond that, there's virtually nobody, other than the very, very wealthiest, who will have to pay taxes.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: I think it sounds like seven and a half million (dollars).

MR. ZUCKERMAN: Well, you may be right.